Rings of Power: Prediction Thread - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Boromir88 · 09-09-2022, 07:30 PM

I'm in BG's camp with thinking Adar is the Mouth of Sauron. He appeared to be a man, and I hope the series explores the Black Numenoreans more.

Oddwen · 09-09-2022, 11:25 PM

(spoilers fresh from episode 3)

The way Adar was out of focus seemed vaguely reminiscent of the Nazgul on weathertop - if it's not the Mouth of Sauron then maybe an established pre-Wraith?

The music in the jail when Halbrand was talking about his past sounded vaguely like the strings of Rohan from Lotr - maybe a red herring? I don't think he's Sauron, I'm reluctant to connect him with Eorl, I really like the theory that he's the King of the Dead, but he's a strong contender for a Ringwraith if not.

I just rewatched the long trailer and spoilers for things we haven't seen in the show yet It looks like Elendil takes his family/an army and Galadriel and Halbrand in a ship back to Middle-earth, Halbrand is wearing some of the same armor and then attacking someone while on a horse - more Eorl foreshadowing? I just don't want to think of him as Eorl quite yet. There's a scene of him in another trailer standing in front of a doorway and behind him are dozens of candles in little nooks - just like skulls in the cave of the king of the dead in LotR?

I have no idea which thread to put this in but Legate I think the reverse Morgul blade should be called the Lugrom blade. For very obvious reasons.

Formendacil · 09-10-2022, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oddwen

The music in the jail when Halbrand was talking about his past sounded vaguely like the strings of Rohan from Lotr - maybe a red herring? I don't think he's Sauron, I'm reluctant to connect him with Eorl, I really like the theory that he's the King of the Dead, but he's a strong contender for a Ringwraith if not.

The long-lost king bit may be the biggest clue re: Wraith, now that I think of it. The idea that the Nazgûl were "kings" of Men became wobbly as soon as Tolkien said some of them were Númenóreans--it seems pretty apparent that none of the actual Tar- or Ar- kings were wraiths (since they all have documented death-dates), so calling them "kings" has to be taken broadly. Still, I think it would make sense to have at least one actual king in the mix, and the geopolity we're being given for Middle-earth this season doesn't have many candidates.

Pitchwife · 09-12-2022, 11:39 PM

I had a nasty thought on the loo this morning. When the Orcs take Arondir to see 'Adar' instead of just killing him, what are they up to? At this point I'm assuming that Adar will turn out to be our first glimpse of Sauron (although I don't want him to turn up yet, but it would make no sense to name a whole episode after this character if he isn't someone really really important).

Now I remember reading somewhere (although I can't quite pinpoint the source) that it was Sauron who supervised Morgoth's original Orc breeding project. If he was responsible for bringing them into existene it makes a twisted kind of sense for them to call him Father (though not in Sindarin

). So what could Adar want with this strong, rebellious elf?

He's to be made into an Orc.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 09-18-2022, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oddwen

The music in the jail when Halbrand was talking about his past sounded vaguely like the strings of Rohan from Lotr - maybe a red herring? I don't think he's Sauron, I'm reluctant to connect him with Eorl, I really like the theory that he's the King of the Dead, but he's a strong contender for a Ringwraith if not.

Yeah, the Ringwraith also ride horses. There are more and more reasons piling up at the moment that make me think he may be the future King of the Dead, especially given that now the Númenoreans seem to be going into Middle-Earth after all. He could promise to come along and then chicken out. He seems to be good at chickening out. Therefore that makes him a strong contender for the King of the Dead, who was the ultimate chicken of them all, and it cost him a few millennia in the Paris catacombs.*

*I had always found PJ's extended scene with quadrillions of rolling skulls completely unrealistic until I visited the Paris catacombs a few years back. I owe him an apology. It was realistic. I'm completely serious here. If you had an earthquake in Paris, the same very scene would happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oddwen

I have no idea which thread to put this in but Legate I think the reverse Morgul blade should be called the Lugrom blade. For very obvious reasons.

I can get behind that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formendacil

The long-lost king bit may be the biggest clue re: Wraith, now that I think of it. The idea that the Nazgûl were "kings" of Men became wobbly as soon as Tolkien said some of them were Númenóreans--it seems pretty apparent that none of the actual Tar- or Ar- kings were wraiths (since they all have documented death-dates), so calling them "kings" has to be taken broadly. Still, I think it would make sense to have at least one actual king in the mix, and the geopolity we're being given for Middle-earth this season doesn't have many candidates.

I had personally always assumed, and also hoped that this show will, of all things, show us a random assortment of, say, at least four out of nine random "king of proto-Dale, king of Al-Harrad, king of the Independent Former Colony of Umbar and the Great Chieftain of Khand" or somesuch, and I sorta assumed that either Theo or Harbrand or both are some of them. If that is not gonna happen at all, THAT I would consider potential wasted. Nazgul don't just spring out of the earth, contrary to popular opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I had a nasty thought on the loo this morning. When the Orcs take Arondir to see 'Adar' instead of just killing him, what are they up to? At this point I'm assuming that Adar will turn out to be our first glimpse of Sauron (although I don't want him to turn up yet, but it would make no sense to name a whole episode after this character if he isn't someone really really important).

Now I remember reading somewhere (although I can't quite pinpoint the source) that it was Sauron who supervised Morgoth's original Orc breeding project. If he was responsible for bringing them into existene it makes a twisted kind of sense for them to call him Father (though not in Sindarin

). So what could Adar want with this strong, rebellious elf?

He's to be made into an Orc.

That was what I expected already at the end of episode 2 the moment he was captured. Especially the Orcs going "oh you showed some fierce behaviour there, we like it". Sadly, with his escape now, it does not seem on the table anymore.

I have one more massive, brutal, turning-everything-on-its-head-prediction, but that is going to require a separate post.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 09-18-2022, 05:01 AM

Okay, once again apologies for making one post after another, but for neatness's sake, I hope that this is acceptable.

So when watching episode 4, there were some "dun dun" moments that however on the surface conflicted with each other. The chief of them being Mr. Evil Barliman Butterbur saying, in the final scene, "Sauron is coming, you saw him falling from the sky few days ago". So is the Meteor Man Sauron after all? Not Gandalf? But is that then a horrible red herring?

And what about Adar? He looks like he could be Sauron, speaks like he could be Sauron... I said on the other thread that it was Sauron's "ability" at the beginning of the Second Age to seem to others the way he wanted, or like "one of them". So Arondir sees Adar like an Elf, maybe the Orcs see him as an Orc, we just don't see their point of view.

But then, Adar AND the Meteor Man cannot both be Sauron, could they?

And what more. Sauron must appear rather soon to chat with Celebrimbor and make the Rings! How can he be in two places at once? In three places at once? Four? Twenty? Unless...

Unless the plotlines were all taking place in different times.

So far (I belive) there was nothing (except Elrond and Galdriel in the beginning) that would indicate that the storylines we are following have anything to do with each other. In fact, that was one of the things that has been annoying me for a while, that these stories all are completely separate from each other (especially the hobbits).

But oh wait! You say. There WAS one thing connecting them. It was the meteor. Everyone saw the meteor. Gil-Galad saw the meteor, the Harfoots found the meteor...

Well, unless it was a different meteor. At a different time.

So here goes my theory.

In the story of the Southlands, the meteor Mr. Evil Butterbur saw falling WAS actually Sauron. Sauron is Adar. He is leading his Orcs to dig, to build Mordor - which has totally not been built yet.

In the story of the Harfoots, the meteor was Gandalf - an age later. It is somehow an epilogue to the entire thing, and it will be tied to the rest of the story somehow differently.

In the story of Elrond and Celebrimbor, Sauron will appear as Annatar. He has already made an ouverture to Celebrimbor, something like "I will come to visit you next spring", which is why Celebrimbor the Elf was suddenly so impatient to have a forge built by next spring.

The story of Galadriel and Mr. H. takes place later than the Southlands story. Sauron has meanwhile finished building Mordor, and we will see the Númenoreans arriving to meet Mordor already fully armed and operational. Bonus: Mr. Halbrand is actually not Theo's father. He is Theo's son, or he is Theo himself. See, Theo actually claimed the Lurgom sword (thanks Oddwen), then was asked by Sauron to join him, but somehow his good side prevailed, he refused the kingship of Men that Sauron offered him, and instead ran away on a raft and changed his name to Halbrand. Or somesuch.

***

This would actually solve also a lot for the problems perceived to be a violation of canon: Gandalf would, in fact, NOT appear at the beginning of Second Age. The timeline-compression would not be so massive, in fact, it would allow for inserting everything that is still in the Appendices (thus Amazon should have rights to it) but doesn't seem to have been addressed in the show so far: the fact that Sauron is supposed to first help forge the Rings, then go to Mordor, then conquer everything up to Lindon, then be beaten back by Númenoreans, and only much later after that the whole Númenorean imperialsm and Ar-Pharazon shenanigans and Sauron on Númenor should occur. You could shuffle the plotlines around (ideally with some timejumps, mainly where Galadriel is concerned) to make them make sense in this system.

It is a somewhat tongue-in-cheek theory still, but actually it would make a lot of sense in many ways.

Oddwen · 09-24-2022, 09:33 AM

I dreamt this (unlikely) prediction last night and I'll put it in here just in case -

"Only blood can bind" - "One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them" - naturally this means that Sauron can only create the ring with his fathers' blood - or any other father nearby - forget being the Mouth of Sauron, The Witch King of Angmar or Sauron himself - Adar is the One Ring!

The One Ring recipe:

1pt gold

1pt cruelty
1pt malice
2pt will to dominate all life
1/2 teaspoon father's blood

Mix well. Bake at 9000f for 15 minutes, or until a toothpick inserted in the center comes out clean. Serve viciously.

09-09-2022, 07:30 PM	#1
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	I'm in BG's camp with thinking Adar is the Mouth of Sauron. He appeared to be a man, and I hope the series explores the Black Numenoreans more. __________________ Fenris Penguin

09-09-2022, 11:25 PM	#2
Oddwen Drummer in the Deep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Next Sunday A.D. Posts: 2,145	(spoilers fresh from episode 3) The way Adar was out of focus seemed vaguely reminiscent of the Nazgul on weathertop - if it's not the Mouth of Sauron then maybe an established pre-Wraith? The music in the jail when Halbrand was talking about his past sounded vaguely like the strings of Rohan from Lotr - maybe a red herring? I don't think he's Sauron, I'm reluctant to connect him with Eorl, I really like the theory that he's the King of the Dead, but he's a strong contender for a Ringwraith if not. I just rewatched the long trailer and spoilers for things we haven't seen in the show yet It looks like Elendil takes his family/an army and Galadriel and Halbrand in a ship back to Middle-earth, Halbrand is wearing some of the same armor and then attacking someone while on a horse - more Eorl foreshadowing? I just don't want to think of him as Eorl quite yet. There's a scene of him in another trailer standing in front of a doorway and behind him are dozens of candles in little nooks - just like skulls in the cave of the king of the dead in LotR? I have no idea which thread to put this in but Legate I think the reverse Morgul blade should be called the Lugrom blade. For very obvious reasons. __________________ But all the while I sit and think of times there were before I listen for returning feet and voices at the door

09-12-2022, 11:39 PM	#4
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	I had a nasty thought on the loo this morning. When the Orcs take Arondir to see 'Adar' instead of just killing him, what are they up to? At this point I'm assuming that Adar will turn out to be our first glimpse of Sauron (although I don't want him to turn up yet, but it would make no sense to name a whole episode after this character if he isn't someone really really important). Now I remember reading somewhere (although I can't quite pinpoint the source) that it was Sauron who supervised Morgoth's original Orc breeding project. If he was responsible for bringing them into existene it makes a twisted kind of sense for them to call him Father (though not in Sindarin). So what could Adar want with this strong, rebellious elf? He's to be made into an Orc. __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

09-18-2022, 05:01 AM	#6
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	The Ultimate Plot Twist Theory of Everything Okay, once again apologies for making one post after another, but for neatness's sake, I hope that this is acceptable. So when watching episode 4, there were some "dun dun" moments that however on the surface conflicted with each other. The chief of them being Mr. Evil Barliman Butterbur saying, in the final scene, "Sauron is coming, you saw him falling from the sky few days ago". So is the Meteor Man Sauron after all? Not Gandalf? But is that then a horrible red herring? And what about Adar? He looks like he could be Sauron, speaks like he could be Sauron... I said on the other thread that it was Sauron's "ability" at the beginning of the Second Age to seem to others the way he wanted, or like "one of them". So Arondir sees Adar like an Elf, maybe the Orcs see him as an Orc, we just don't see their point of view. But then, Adar AND the Meteor Man cannot both be Sauron, could they? And what more. Sauron must appear rather soon to chat with Celebrimbor and make the Rings! How can he be in two places at once? In three places at once? Four? Twenty? Unless... Unless the plotlines were all taking place in different times. So far (I belive) there was nothing (except Elrond and Galdriel in the beginning) that would indicate that the storylines we are following have anything to do with each other. In fact, that was one of the things that has been annoying me for a while, that these stories all are completely separate from each other (especially the hobbits). But oh wait! You say. There WAS one thing connecting them. It was the meteor. Everyone saw the meteor. Gil-Galad saw the meteor, the Harfoots found the meteor... Well, unless it was a different meteor. At a different time. So here goes my theory. In the story of the Southlands, the meteor Mr. Evil Butterbur saw falling WAS actually Sauron. Sauron is Adar. He is leading his Orcs to dig, to build Mordor - which has totally not been built yet. In the story of the Harfoots, the meteor was Gandalf - an age later. It is somehow an epilogue to the entire thing, and it will be tied to the rest of the story somehow differently. In the story of Elrond and Celebrimbor, Sauron will appear as Annatar. He has already made an ouverture to Celebrimbor, something like "I will come to visit you next spring", which is why Celebrimbor the Elf was suddenly so impatient to have a forge built by next spring. The story of Galadriel and Mr. H. takes place later than the Southlands story. Sauron has meanwhile finished building Mordor, and we will see the Númenoreans arriving to meet Mordor already fully armed and operational. Bonus: Mr. Halbrand is actually not Theo's father. He is Theo's son, or he is Theo himself. See, Theo actually claimed the Lurgom sword (thanks Oddwen), then was asked by Sauron to join him, but somehow his good side prevailed, he refused the kingship of Men that Sauron offered him, and instead ran away on a raft and changed his name to Halbrand. Or somesuch. *** This would actually solve also a lot for the problems perceived to be a violation of canon: Gandalf would, in fact, NOT appear at the beginning of Second Age. The timeline-compression would not be so massive, in fact, it would allow for inserting everything that is still in the Appendices (thus Amazon should have rights to it) but doesn't seem to have been addressed in the show so far: the fact that Sauron is supposed to first help forge the Rings, then go to Mordor, then conquer everything up to Lindon, then be beaten back by Númenoreans, and only much later after that the whole Númenorean imperialsm and Ar-Pharazon shenanigans and Sauron on Númenor should occur. You could shuffle the plotlines around (ideally with some timejumps, mainly where Galadriel is concerned) to make them make sense in this system. It is a somewhat tongue-in-cheek theory still, but actually it would make a lot of sense in many ways. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

09-24-2022, 09:33 AM	#7
Oddwen Drummer in the Deep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Next Sunday A.D. Posts: 2,145	I dreamt this (unlikely) prediction last night and I'll put it in here just in case - "Only blood can bind" - "One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them" - naturally this means that Sauron can only create the ring with his fathers' blood - or any other father nearby - forget being the Mouth of Sauron, The Witch King of Angmar or Sauron himself - Adar is the One Ring! The One Ring recipe: 1pt gold 1pt cruelty 1pt malice 2pt will to dominate all life 1/2 teaspoon father's blood Mix well. Bake at 9000f for 15 minutes, or until a toothpick inserted in the center comes out clean. Serve viciously. __________________ But all the while I sit and think of times there were before I listen for returning feet and voices at the door