How We Read Rings of Power

[Galadriel55]

Good to hear from you, Bb! It's been a while.

I am very much in agreement with the general idea of both points. We very much do bring along baggage of expectations to any adaptation, and it can't not colour our opinion of it to some extent. And the idea of treating the show like a fanfic has been circulated around for quite some time. For myself, this has been my philosophy to which I turn for consolation and to preserve my sanity whenever some hair-pulling article would pop up. Bit there are two buts which still won't let me rest in peace even with this more forgiving outlook.

Firstly, fanfic and even altfic is fine... but there is such a thing as bad fanfic. Perhaps I am spoiled, in the last few years I have encountered some remarkably good fan/altfic including some from the Tolkien universe, and perhaps I have high expectations even for such productions as a result. But while the degree of canonical faithfulness can be somewhat flexible, good storytelling is still good storytelling, and there has been enough to make the storytelling of ROP very questionable.

The other aspect of it that really gets my goat is the pretense of being the real thing. "The book Tolkien never wrote", true to the letter of the lore, etc. No. If you are an adaptation, especially one that so clearly exists around the published texts rather than depicting the text itself, and one which simultaneously presents itself as a new and improved and modernized version - don't pretend to be the real thing. Just admit that you're an adaptation loosely based on an existing fantasy world, and acknowledge that world respectfully. You don't see other fanfics or altfics parading as true depictions. And on some level I think I would feel a lot more kindly towards the show if it presented itself with more humility and with more respect towards the source material - not even in the on-screen choices, but at least in their PR campaign. But you can't simultaneously claim to be connected and faithful to source material and be so alt; you can't tap into a fanbase by deliberately advertising on the franchise name, and not expect to be criticized by said fans when you fail to deliver the standards set by the franchise. At the very least, much can be forgjven when an adaptation is clearly made with love, even of it differs drastically from the origonal; but they have implicitely maligned the source material and the author numerous times, because the originals were not done in the same style as the alt fic. It is not made with love, it is made with money-making schemes in mind. And yet ROP demands universal respect - if you do not like it, you must be one of those horrible narrow minded people [of which enough is said elsewhere that I won't reiterate here]! It just can't have it both ways - be forgiven for the liberties and storytelling imperfections of a humble fanfic, but also present itself as the greatest thing since sliced bread. That stuff gets under my skin.


I think I'll wait for the thirs episode to air before I start watching, based on the reviews posted on this forum, and then perhaps I can give a better response to the first and main point of your thread - what baggage seems to weigh most heavily in this endeavour.

[Tar Elenion]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

The other aspect of it that really gets my goat is the pretense of being the real thing. "The book Tolkien never wrote", true to the letter of the lore, etc. No. If you are an adaptation, especially one that so clearly exists around the published texts rather than depicting the text itself, and one which simultaneously presents itself as a new and improved and modernized version - don't pretend to be the real thing. Just admit that you're an adaptation loosely based on an existing fantasy world, and acknowledge that world respectfully.

I have been saying this months, just be honest. Instead it has been repeated gaslighting and lies from the showrunners and producers (just watch the softball Q&A with Colbert at SDCC ('we looked deep into the books and felt what Tolkien wanted')), as well as self styled Tolkien 'experts' and Tolkien 'Professors'.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

You don't see other fanfics or altfics parading as true depictions.

Well, one sees it all the time, with historical fiction. Shakespeare made his living doing it. Of course, Shakespeare was good. The writers of Showtime's The Tudors, not so much. (Or even more directly, the Bard's Henry V alongside Netflix' wretched The King). And the ROP gang, the same.

Is it possible to make an altfic adaptation and still wind up with something rather different but equally good? Well, yes, occasionally: Lawrence of Arabia has many historical infelicities but is a brilliant film nonetheless. Moving back to literary adaptations, The Shining fared awfully well-- but it took a Kubrick.

[Aelfwine]

I, for one, have watched it and enjoyed it. No, it is not Tolkien, but it has enough of a Middle-Earth "feel" to make it familiar. Others I know feel the same. Also, people who have not read Tolkien will watch it, enjoy it, and perhaps come here for information or background. Shouldn't they be made to feel welcome?

[alatar]

Hey Bb, good to see you over here!


Part of me feels for the constricted writers. But they still need to tell a good story with interesting characters.


I'm not beholden to canon; my wife's never read the Books. Her opinion is that 'ROP is all over the place.' Don't think that she was referring to the map.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by alatar

Hey Bb, good to see you over here!


Part of me feels for the constricted writers. But they still need to tell a good story with interesting characters.


I'm not beholden to canon; my wife's never read the Books. Her opinion is that 'ROP is all over the place.' Don't think that she was referring to the map.

Son says something similar but with less confusion. He thinks they are setting up several/multiple narrative streams which will ultimately meet in confluence. And he's already making a few guesses about that. So, not enthusiastic but intrigued by possibilities.

And, hey, I'm not saying I am wildly enthusiastic about the series. I am more interested in finding a place (posts) where new members can feel their enjoyment will not be slammed by oh so officially hounding loremasters of the Silm. One can make criticisms without making it seem there is no home for alternate or happy opinions.

[Mithadan]

I am more interested in finding a place (posts) where new members can feel their enjoyment will not be slammed by oh so officially hounding loremasters of the Silm. One can make criticisms without making it seem there is no home for alternate or happy opinions.

Agreed. We have active and enthusiastic members that were first attracted to JRRT by Jackson's movies. Let's allow the same to happen here.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Son says something similar but with less confusion. He thinks they are setting up several/multiple narrative streams which will ultimately meet in confluence. And he's already making a few guesses about that. So, not enthusiastic but intrigued by possibilities.

And, hey, I'm not saying I am wildly enthusiastic about the series. I am more interested in finding a place (posts) where new members can feel their enjoyment will not be slammed by oh so officially hounding loremasters of the Silm. One can make criticisms without making it seem there is no home for alternate or happy opinions.

I'd decided let science reign, and judge the show on the evidence and not by what I was seeing/hearing/reading from others.


And have I ever had a happy opinion?

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I am very much in agreement with the general idea of both points. We very much do bring along baggage of expectations to any adaptation, and it can't not colour our opinion of it to some extent.

It is far more than mere "baggage". It is one's philosophical predispositions, which can often operate seemingly unconsciously but not necessarily so, that predetermine how one reads a text. Edward Said's examination of "Orientalism" is a prominent example of the conceptual framework I am referring to but the problem is not limited to post colonial studies. See Toni Morrison's playing in the dark: whiteness and the literary imagination. Other examples come easily to mind where attitudes towards the changing depiction of women really underlay the negative opinions about Galadriel in RoP--the complaints about Galadriel say more about those who speak them than they do about the depiction of the character, especially when spoken as an alleged gatekeeper of the Tolkien universe. Or when attitudes about Hollywood lead those gatekeepers to assume they know the erroneous minds of writers who all suffer from the same mindset. Its an essentialism that operates prejudicially or blindly. Another example: Professor Drout has acknowledged in his FB posts about RoP that he really cannot come to terms with film--"I am not a film person". In other words, he doesn't appreciate how the medium works; he even admits he fastforwards a great deal (but he does not tell us what triggers this fastforwarding). That means, for him--and this is my interpretation of his statement--that the standard for him is always set by the conditions of literary text rather than by how the story can be constructed by the visual/oral text. And I say this with a great deal of respect for Professor Drout's work on Tolkien.

For myself, this has been my philosophy [ie, fanfic] to which I turn for consolation and to preserve my sanity whenever some hair-pulling article would pop up. Bit there are two buts which still won't let me rest in peace even with this more forgiving outlook....I think I'll wait for the thirs episode to air before I start watching, based on the reviews posted on this forum, and then perhaps I can give a better response to the first and main point of your thread

Oh my, you are quite angsty aren't you? Will you be calling down a fatwa on the showrunners and writers even before you view any of the series? Because really you are not here talking knowledgeably about the actual TV series itself but about the epitexts which preceded it. I guess this is your statement about what you will bring to viewing the series, but it really does not tell us anything about the series itself.