Riddles in the Downs

[Pervinca Took]

Is the last verse about Aragorn? Is the motherland Numenor?

Tears sounds like Nienna. She lived alone, but did she have a sister?

I meant the first and second elves to wake - was the first called Imin?

What else did Feanor burn, or did you mean the ships and his spirit in general, or the life-force of his mother?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Is the last verse about Aragorn? Is the motherland Numenor?

No to both. The entire riddle talks about a single group, of which "I" is "the last". Motherland is not Numenor, but you have the right scale of destruction.

Originally Posted by Pervinca

Tears sounds like Nienna. She lived alone, but did she have a sister?

Nienna is not one of the sisters.

Originally Posted by Pervinca

I meant the first and second elves to wake - was the first called Imin?

Not them. The "oldest one" and "second" come from the same group as "the last". "Second" with an S is a separate entity.

Originally Posted by Pervinca

What else did Feanor burn, or did you mean the ships and his spirit in general, or the life-force of his mother?

I was thinking Alqualonde and ships at Losgar. And I hope I didn't miss another major burning by him before he went up in flames himself - though it would be irrelevant, that line just refers to Feanor and his death, and you got that element already.


I thought this riddle would be really easy. It is very much a description cloaked in vague poetry. Some elements are very precise, and you can crack at them in similar fashion to Feanor. For this approach I can point you to the "estel" line - that too refers to very specific event and people. As another clue for "Second" - Second came from countries far, and that is important.

But in this case, you can also try to read the poetic gist of the riddle for a gestalt feeling. Also, knowing that the riddle talks about a group of related entities where "eldest", "second", and "last" are more clearly defined and some "sisters" in the second stanza are a bit more vaguely described - see if just by reading it as a poem you have any unifying theme jumping out at you, almost password-style.

[Galadriel55]

Reposting on new page. A whole page of guesses for the same riddle!



The oldest one, the nameless one,
Did not know warmth of shining sun.
But in the darkness shone the stars,
And in their light, from countries far
The Second came in second's turn -
But, in the end, though day was won,
Who twice had torched, third time must burn.

But better known in tale of years
The younger sisters - one for tears,
And one for joy, resounding joy
Which yet failed darkness to destroy;
But peace was guarded well, until
Twixt triumph great and ruin great -
But stopping short of western hills -
A burst reversed the tides of fate,
Breaking resistance, kindling dread,
Incinerating every shred
Of estel in the lord now dead
Whose line was estel to beget.

I'm not the least, but I'm the last.
The closing rage of hardships past,
Of foes and heroes both long gone.
You cannot count us on one hand -
Though brief our line, 'tis yet too long,
And we destroyed our motherland.
I am the end. I am the start.
I split the thread of time apart.