Family Tree Trivia - Page 13 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Galadriel55 · 04-22-2021, 03:31 PM

Ulfang and his Ul-sons? I'm not sure even they are unambiguously evil though. The Nirnaeth is sort of said to be their fault, though, so perhaps they deserve the brand.

Huinesoron · 04-22-2021, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Ulfang and his Ul-sons? I'm not sure even they are unambiguously evil though. The Nirnaeth is sort of said to be their fault, though, so perhaps they deserve the brand.

Um... I'll accept that; they were willing Morgoth-followers. I was actually thinking of Azog and Bolg.

Over to you.

hS

Urwen · 04-22-2021, 03:34 PM

(Also, you're up in the Riddle thread)

Galadriel55 · 04-22-2021, 03:49 PM

A simple one, I think, in rather reverse-theme fashion.

Which two characters are speculated to be related, but are actually not so?

Urwen · 04-22-2021, 04:04 PM

Oh, I know! It's Morgoth and the random baby that he adopted, right?

Such a nice, upstanding fellow...going around adopting babies...

And personally, I speculate that Feanor and Gothmog are related...

Galadriel55 · 04-22-2021, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Oh, I know! It's Morgoth and the random baby that he adopted, right?

Such a nice, upstanding fellow...going around adopting babies...

I think you're still stuck on the evil parent/child question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

And personally, I speculate that Feanor and Gothmog are related...

You might do so, but I don't think there is such documented speculation in the actual text.

Urwen · 04-23-2021, 02:47 AM

The only speculation inside the books is the Primula/Drogo deal, but that's not what it is about. Unless you count appendices?

Huinesoron · 04-23-2021, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

The only speculation inside the books is the Primula/Drogo deal, but that's not what it is about. Unless you count appendices?

Primula and Drogo were related - they shared a great-grandparent. Didn't know it was in the text of the book though (I should've checked rather than tracing family trees!).

The question makes me think of the "fairy wife" Took legend, but I don't think it's specific enough. Tolkien at one point considered the possibility of Eol being part-Noldor, which would make him distantly related to Aredhel, but it's not an in-universe speculation.

It's not Finrod and Gildor Inglorion ("Son of Inglor" = Finrod), is it?

hS

Urwen · 04-23-2021, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Primula and Drogo were related - they shared a great-grandparent. Didn't know it was in the text of the book though (I should've checked rather than tracing family trees!).

That's because it wasn't. The speculation was about the drowning.

Galadriel55 · 04-23-2021, 06:36 AM

The speculation comes from the main texts. You don't need to dig into appendices or HOME or such. For "Inglorion", it would still be the audiience speculating about the relationship to Finrod. This speculation is in the text - and as an audience, we know it to be entirely wrong. And Urwen, the speculation is about two characters being related, not about anything they did.

Urwen · 04-23-2021, 06:47 AM

I suspect it comes from LOTR, so time to start digging.

Urwen · 04-23-2021, 07:09 AM

Okay, so I found this:

Quote:

'It is true all the same,' replied Gandalf. 'About their origins, at any rate, I know more than hobbits do themselves. And even Bilbo's story suggests the kinship. There was a great deal in the background of their minds and memories that was very similar. They understood one another remarkably well, very much better than a hobbit would understand, say, a Dwarf, or an Orc, or even an Elf. Think of the riddles they both knew, for one thing.'

I might be grasping at straws, though, but I won't stop trying.

Huinesoron · 04-23-2021, 07:15 AM

Is it Bilbo and the rabbits Gollum catches? The trolls and eagles certainly think he is one...

I feel like the 'speculation' is likely quite insulting, and possibly relating to an animal. Sort of like Treebeard saying that he thought Merry and Pip were little Orcs, but again he doesn't get specific.

hS

Galadriel55 · 04-23-2021, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Okay, so I found this:

I might be grasping at straws, though, but I won't stop trying.

But we actually trust Gandalf's assessment that Gollum's people were likely related to hobbits. So no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Is it Bilbo and the rabbits Gollum catches? The trolls and eagles certainly think he is one...

I feel like the 'speculation' is likely quite insulting, and possibly relating to an animal. Sort of like Treebeard saying that he thought Merry and Pip were little Orcs, but again he doesn't get specific.

hS

These are all very good thoughts that I haven't thought of.

No, the instance I have in mind is actually complimentary, and is about two specific characters.

Urwen · 04-23-2021, 07:32 AM

I thought about Finduilas' statement about Turin and Beren being kinsmen, but that one is also true...

Galadriel55 · 04-23-2021, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

I thought about Finduilas' statement about Turin and Beren being kinsmen, but that one is also true...

Yes, it is true. Therefore, it is wrong.

Urwen · 04-23-2021, 07:39 AM

There was that one instance where...

Wait a minute, I think I may know the answer...

Urwen · 04-23-2021, 08:03 AM

Except there is no way for that to be possible, not even as a mere speculation

Galadriel55 · 04-23-2021, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Except there is no way for that to be possible, not even as a mere speculation

You know, it is really helpful when you post so clearly. Then I can tell you for sure whether you're on the right track, and you will know for sure whether you're right or wrong.

Besides, did I not tell you that the we the audience KNOW this speculation is incorrect? You are looking for impossible suggestions!

Urwen · 04-23-2021, 08:11 AM

Well, there is that instance where Theoden and Fingolfin were compared to Orome...

Urwen · 04-23-2021, 08:13 AM

But no one in the books went 'Oh, they remind me of Orome, they must be related to him!' or anything similar

Galadriel55 · 04-23-2021, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

But no one in the books went 'Oh, they remind me of Orome, they must be related to him!' or anything similar

Right. You are looking for an instance that's not merely a comparison, but a semi-serious suggestion of familial relation. However, the made-up example here is exactly the kind of thing you need.

To help you out, it is NOT a Sil/other First Age event.

Urwen · 04-23-2021, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Right. You are looking for an instance that's not merely a comparison, but a semi-serious suggestion of familial relation. However, the made-up example here is exactly the kind of thing you need.

So you're saying that someone said/thought 'you remind me of X, are you related' to someone else?

Galadriel55 · 04-23-2021, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

So you're saying that someone said/thought 'you remind me of X, are you related' to someone else?

Different grammar, similar concept. X reminded someone of Y, and prompted a semi-serious suggestion of familial relation.

Urwen · 04-23-2021, 08:26 AM

Apart from Turin/Beren comparison, I can't recall any other such instance without re-reading the books...

Galadriel55 · 04-23-2021, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Apart from Turin/Beren comparison, I can't recall any other such instance without re-reading the books...

Okay. How about I give a chance for others to give it a try, and if there is no luck in a couple days, I will point you in a more specific direction.

Urwen · 04-23-2021, 08:31 AM

Okay, but I am allowed to research in the interim, right?

Galadriel55 · 04-23-2021, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Okay, but I am allowed to research in the interim, right?

Absolutely! Guess away.

Urwen · 04-23-2021, 09:36 AM

Also, just a reminder that you're up in riddle thread.

Galadriel55 · 04-23-2021, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Also, just a reminder that you're up in riddle thread.

So you said. Be patient please, there will be one within a few days, and if not I will pass the turn over.

Urwen · 04-23-2021, 02:39 PM

One more clarification: is it the exact quote which says 'X reminds me of Y', verbatim?

Galadriel55 · 04-23-2021, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

One more clarification: is it the exact quote which says 'X reminds me of Y', verbatim?

Verbatim? No. Not those exact words. But their meaning, yes.

Urwen · 04-23-2021, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Verbatim? No. Not those exact words. But their meaning, yes.

But it is a quote? Not thoughts or monologue?

Galadriel55 · 04-23-2021, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

But it is a quote? Not thoughts or monologue?

What difference does it make? I told you, I will have plenty of hints coming if in a day or two there is no success from you or someone else, but let's not do 20 Questions please.

Urwen · 04-23-2021, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

What difference does it make? I told you, I will have plenty of hints coming if in a day or two there is no success from you or someone else, but let's not do 20 Questions please.

You said 'in a couple of days'. That could mean five or six days too, for all I know...

Galadriel55 · 04-23-2021, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

You said 'in a couple of days'. That could mean five or six days too, for all I know...

No, I mean a couple days, as in 1-2. In any case, it definitely doesn't mean "a couple hours". Please have some patience while looking for this textual reference. Remember that it doesn't all have to be book digging, if you fall upon the right association you could very well bring it up from memory.

Urwen · 04-23-2021, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

No, I mean a couple days, as in 1-2. In any case, it definitely doesn't mean "a couple hours". Please have some patience while looking for this textual reference. Remember that it doesn't all have to be book digging, if you fall upon the right association you could very well bring it up from memory.

My memory is a terrible thing to behold...

Though I have possible candidates for X, like Pippin or Faramir...

Galadriel55 · 04-23-2021, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

My memory is a terrible thing to behold...

Though I have possible candidates for X, like Pippin or Faramir...

By X do you mean one of the two characters who are suggested to be related? I can answer that fairly, I think. Neither Pippin nor Faramir is the subject of that speculation.

Urwen · 04-23-2021, 04:12 PM

*quietly closes her ROTK window*

Urwen · 04-24-2021, 04:25 PM

Well, it's been a day, so...do you wanna give hints now or wait one more day?

04-22-2021, 03:31 PM	#481
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,491	Ulfang and his Ul-sons? I'm not sure even they are unambiguously evil though. The Nirnaeth is sort of said to be their fault, though, so perhaps they deserve the brand. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

04-22-2021, 03:34 PM	#483
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	(Also, you're up in the Riddle thread) __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

04-22-2021, 03:49 PM	#484
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,491	A simple one, I think, in rather reverse-theme fashion. Which two characters are speculated to be related, but are actually not so? __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

04-22-2021, 04:04 PM	#485
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Oh, I know! It's Morgoth and the random baby that he adopted, right? Such a nice, upstanding fellow...going around adopting babies... And personally, I speculate that Feanor and Gothmog are related... __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

04-23-2021, 02:47 AM	#487
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	The only speculation inside the books is the Primula/Drogo deal, but that's not what it is about. Unless you count appendices? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

04-23-2021, 06:36 AM	#490
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,491	The speculation comes from the main texts. You don't need to dig into appendices or HOME or such. For "Inglorion", it would still be the audiience speculating about the relationship to Finrod. This speculation is in the text - and as an audience, we know it to be entirely wrong. And Urwen, the speculation is about two characters being related, not about anything they did. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

04-23-2021, 06:47 AM	#491
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	I suspect it comes from LOTR, so time to start digging. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

04-23-2021, 07:15 AM	#493
Huinesoron Overshadowed Eagle Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea Posts: 3,957	Is it Bilbo and the rabbits Gollum catches? The trolls and eagles certainly think he is one... I feel like the 'speculation' is likely quite insulting, and possibly relating to an animal. Sort of like Treebeard saying that he thought Merry and Pip were little Orcs, but again he doesn't get specific. hS __________________ Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera

04-23-2021, 07:32 AM	#495
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	I thought about Finduilas' statement about Turin and Beren being kinsmen, but that one is also true... __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

04-23-2021, 07:39 AM	#497
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	There was that one instance where... Wait a minute, I think I may know the answer... __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

04-23-2021, 08:03 AM	#498
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Except there is no way for that to be possible, not even as a mere speculation __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

04-23-2021, 08:11 AM	#500
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Well, there is that instance where Theoden and Fingolfin were compared to Orome... __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

04-23-2021, 08:13 AM	#501
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	But no one in the books went 'Oh, they remind me of Orome, they must be related to him!' or anything similar __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

04-23-2021, 08:26 AM	#505
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Apart from Turin/Beren comparison, I can't recall any other such instance without re-reading the books... __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

04-23-2021, 08:31 AM	#507
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Okay, but I am allowed to research in the interim, right? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

04-23-2021, 09:36 AM	#509
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Also, just a reminder that you're up in riddle thread. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

04-23-2021, 02:39 PM	#511
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	One more clarification: is it the exact quote which says 'X reminds me of Y', verbatim? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

04-23-2021, 04:12 PM	#519
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	quietly closes her ROTK window __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

04-24-2021, 04:25 PM	#520
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Well, it's been a day, so...do you wanna give hints now or wait one more day? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.