The Letter of the Law

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I did sketch out an all-woman Fellowship a while back along the same lines

I did not know you were also an art creator in such a way - but oh my, that is a splendid idea if there has ever been one! The description you provide is rather gripping and sounds like a surprisingly plausible scenario. I really like the inclusion of especially all the Hobbit ladies, each of them make pretty strong cases for their particular presence.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

though to my shame I had to tap the movies for Ranger Arwen and, of all people, Tauriel. It does showcase both how interesting Tolkien's female characters can be - and how few of them there are. (I suppose I could find a way to replace Tauriel with Ioreth of Minas Tirith, but she might be a bit much...)

It would have worked - something along the lines of Gandalf picking her up during one of his information-gathering visits to Minas Tirith, her latching onto him with her babbling and somehow causing him to think she might have a role to play (perhaps Gandalf would give some credit to her memory of the old prophecies - or maybe she would be just all too excited to see their subjects "live" that he would take her along - or maybe she would accidentally rile up some high-ups, such as by supporting Gandalf's Wizard-talk in the presence of Denethor or somesuch, and getting "kicked out", Gandalf would decide to take her along, sort of in the way he did Sam).

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Cirdan is a shipwright, Lord, and Master, and Celebrimbor was a Lord. The only King to hold any of the three was Gil-Galad.

*shrugs* Semantics indeed. I still think that "Lord" and "King" are rather interchangeable under those circumstances, but I also perceive that already that is not precise language, so I guess it really is about where one draws the line.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

It's entirely within reason that Tolkien would have restricted a description of Nazgul #5, the Sorceress of the Last Desert to an utterly unreadable scribble on the back of an envelope.

That, to be sure, is a 100% legitimate assumption.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

But of course! The Nine Rings weren't destroyed, just buried under Barad-dur when it fell (along with the Ithil Stone); per "The Dead and the Undead", it's perfectly plausible that the Nazgul would be bound to their Rings even in actual death. Once they were unearthed - which I seem to recall Aragorn had no intention of doing - they could return as genuine wraiths.

I now only skimmed through the thread, so I don't know if it was addressed there in depth, but would the Nine not have lost their power after the destruction of the One - so, regardless of whether they continued to exist or not, they would no longer have the chance to "empower" the Nazgul and give them the strength to "live" again any longer?

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Or maybe they just come back for Dagor Dagorath. I mean, Turin's going to, why not Sauron's pet Men?

That is how I always read it - but the very reason I mentioned is that it kind of sounds like it should happen sooner. Or in other words, that's the boring explanation and it is nothing new. But the formulation speaking about that particular age basically makes it sound like "and then he reappeared in the Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Age".

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Shadow of Mordor is... tolerable if you accept the basic premise of 'Celebrimbor was trapped as a ghost and turned evilish'. Shadow of War - spoilers, I guess? - made Isildur and Helm Hammerhand into Nazgul. I've played the first, but won't touch the second with a bargepole.

Oh, I think I have heard the thing about Helm somewhere. *shudders* Uggh. And poor Isildur... Now I'm thinking we should be grateful that PJ did not have such an idea.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

This reveals the Witch-King feared Boromir, not only in life but in death. Glorfindel says nothing about a living man, but 500+ years after killing the warrior-Steward he feared, he's still clearly haunted by Boromir's ghost.

That's actually great!! And besides, the area of dead men fighting dead men has not been sufficiently explored, but it sounds like something fairly plausible, no?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I did sketch out an all-woman Fellowship a while back along the same lines, though to my shame I had to tap the movies for Ranger Arwen and, of all people, Tauriel. It does showcase both how interesting Tolkien's female characters can be - and how few of them there are. (I suppose I could find a way to replace Tauriel with Ioreth of Minas Tirith, but she might be a bit much...)

I like the all-female Fellowship. Tauriel's not a bad shout, she's actually not the most-annoying inclusion in The Hobbit. That goes to Alfrid, because 1. You can't make your comic relief character someone the audience actually despises. 2. They wanted a Grima-like character, and Brad Dourif is a legend of horror-films; anyone who tried to copy his character was going to pale in comparison.

Right. Anyway the all-female Fellowship. If we take the all-male Fellowship by comparsion.

-Galadriel is Gandalf
-Eowyn is Boromir (Eomer commented that Boromir looked more like the "swift sons of Eorl" than the grim men of Minas Tirith)
-Dis is Gimli
-Arwen is Aragorn
-Tauriel is Legolas

How about though, if Tauriel sticks in your craw...Celebrian? Instead of going to the Undying Lands after her capture and torture, she actually takes the role that Elladan and Elrohir fill. She forever hates orcs and feels the only way to heal is to go on these orc-killing rampages. Her decision to join the all-female Fellowship is purely motivated by revenge.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

That's actually great!! And besides, the area of dead men fighting dead men has not been sufficiently explored, but it sounds like something fairly plausible, no?

Thank you, definitely seems plausible.