Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, discussion thread

[Inziladun]

And if someone happens to ask me "what's that Werewolf game about, anyway?" I'm pointing them here.

[Pitchwife]

*reads narration*
...
...
...
...
...
*applauds*

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Just first thoughts: a crazy and wonderful game everyone!

That was worthy of a "Return of the Werewolf to the 'Downs"!

Hear, hear! And thanks for bringing it to us in such a beautiful package! *bows*

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I have more or less read it - and the Game Thread too - and it is still a mystery to me, where did that idea come from?

I mean at one time there was nothing of the sort and when I checked in the next time it was already "yesterday's news" in both threads.

At least on the Cuties thread, I blame Mac.

But it fit well with the mental image I had from start, that Boro was up to something strange. I am at least happy that I didn't make it up - but that it probably in fact meant that he was a Wolf.

But amazingly played, Boro, and I said elsewhere, amazingly played, Brinn! And well everyone - it's been great to once again meet with y'all in such a cozy setting. (Twice as much for my buddies in the QT.)

For myself, I am probably the most interested in the Wolves' thought processes and logic - not the least the entire Boro-feat, how did they come up with it, what were their objectives, and so on...

I also urge everyone who remained alive to the end to at least skim through the Cuties thread. It was hilarious at times, but you will also get an insight into some of our inner thoughts, so we don't repeat ourselves here...

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I wasn't ordinary, I was outright abysmal.

Well, you're extra ordinary then.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

But amazingly played, Boro, and I said elsewhere, amazingly played, Brinn! And well everyone - it's been great to once again meet with y'all in such a cozy setting. (Twice as much for my buddies in the QT.)

Indeed. Brinn, after D1 I had no idea what at all you could possibly be and tended to forget you even existed, in spite of the QT reminding us regularly. Congratulations on staying hidden and alive for so long, and thank you for winning the game for us!


Boro - words actually fail me. When did you turn into the phantom 2.0?

[Rikae]

Crossed with Boro ... me, seerish? Well, I guess getting killed as seerish is the best an ordo can hope for, but I reacted to Boro the way I did Day 1 because I was thinking vaguely " possible baddie, possible seer, just nudge him slightly and see how he reacts" Guess that kinda worked? :Not how I wanted!

[Boromir88]

I know Team Wolf have planned all along to release our night-chats; Boro, as Last Wolf Standing are you okay with your chat being published? I should be able to get stable versions of both up pretty quickly.~Huey

Please do! I only shared 2 of mine that were my favorites

Originally Posted by Rikae

Crossed with Boro ... me, seerish? Well, I guess getting killed as seerish is the best an ordo can hope for, but I reacted to Boro the way I did Day 1 because I was thinking vaguely " possible baddie, possible seer, just nudge him slightly and see how he reacts" Guess that kinda worked? :Not how I wanted!

Yep. When you said you planned a trap, I took your "I like lists" in your first post as a sign you were contradicting me without trying to draw too much attention. And that ended up with my scheming that was doomed from the start. I think it would have worked if it didn't actually end up protecting the real seer, but because of your suspicions of Brinn I chose to make it look like I was protecting her and Lommy.

After sally's lynch, I started stepping up the efforts to draw out the seer. Going after Lottie right at the start of the next day, but after Lottie's responses I backed off feeling pretty confident she wasn't the seer, but actually was the Innocent child.

Then when the QT voted Lhuna and after her lynching I thought I could try to look like the seer to draw the real one out. Lalaith picked up my slip at the end of the day. Which I guess hindsight any innocent could have done, but with her previous frustration with how openly people were discussing Kit's reveal, thought maybe that was a sign she was the seer.

Then with Pitch's reactions after Legate's death, and his reaction to the QT voting Rune the next day, we thought perhaps Pitch was the seer, who had not dreamed a wolf yet and he seemed frustrated/upset by people he dreamed innocent dying/being suspected. Funny the night we chose Pitch, THE Ka, Kath and I spent probably a combined 20 hours going through every post from every day and still didn't have any reason to believe the seer was Brinn at that time.

We caught Rune's "Telemus" clues, but found it hard to believe if he was the seer he surely would have dreamed of Eonwe by now.

Then after we killed Pitch, I don't know if I agree with Lommy saying I chickened out on just not going through with the "fake seer reveal" that I was setting up for. At that time THE Ka had said she was going to have trouble being around over the weekend and we didn't want her to obligated to survive, so let her relax with in the QT with her dead mates and G55. If I went through with a fake reveal, it would just leave Kath, and if I had not been dreamed yet, I surely was going to after all the "Yeah I'm not the seer, just tried to look like it."

So the plan then was it would be better not to fake a reveal, to try to kill the Seer (which I think was the night we decided on Shasta) for all of his "hot takes" being scary accurate. Then Brinn comes out and reveals she dreamed Kath and it was kind of all over. After that, I just said I wanted to have one shot at who the Innocent Child was (which I was pretty strongly convinced was Lottie, before she revealed).

And yes my early banter was a "let me try to find the cobbler" because my plan to start was to try to act like the cobbler and not have the village so easily willing to lynch me. And that had to be scrapped, but for being a 1 day cobbler, G55 caused quite a bit of distraction and destruction, particularly in the death of the ranger . That is a trade that wolf-me would make any day.

Boro - words actually fail me. When did you turn into the phantom 2.0?~Pitch

Well when Huey posts our planning, that was never my intention from the outset! ha. I wanted to stay limited and argue with a few people as possible to not leave any trail, then eventually thought I'd be lynched in 2-3 days. Turned out had to try something else and I threw every trick I could think of to draw out the seer. Brinn did not budge. It was remarkable.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

After sally's lynch, I started stepping up the efforts to draw out the seer. Going after Lottie right at the start of the next day, but after Lottie's responses I backed off feeling pretty confident she wasn't the seer, but actually was the Innocent child.


...


After that, I just said I wanted to have one shot at who the Innocent Child was (which I was pretty strongly convinced was Lottie, before she revealed).

I KNEW IT! I said that's what you were doing, I knew that was a wolf checking to see if I was the Seer!! Also, yeah, I figured between me and whichever of Rune or Boro wasn't the wolf, it would be pretty easy to figure out that I was the Innocent Child. So not coming out there would've meant I probably still died but the village had a slightly less guaranteed victory. Just how it turns out sometimes.

[Thinlómien]

Very cosy with just G55 and Rikae, loved the surprise teaming up. This made me giggle:

Originally Posted by G55

Brinniel talks like she's on a sedative.
Boro talks like he's on a stimulant.

I love how the cuties hated the long poss even more than the living. This one made me snort:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Eonwe is now wall-of-text quote-posting... himself. I half thought he was trying to prove himself a wolf!

I want to laugh at Mac's conviction that Boro was the seer, but I don't think I can judge!

Generally, I'm quite comforted by the fact that the dead were just as confused as the living. I was somewhat terrified you guys had figured everything out and were yelling us how can we be so stupid.

Originally Posted by Mac

I reeeally hope Boro will dream of Greenie tonight. I will eat my mousepad if she's not evil.

How did it taste?

Originally Posted by Lhuna

Also I wish people would stop using [name of Downer]-alysis: it conjures images of the said Downer spontaneously bursting.

Sorry Lhuna! I am laughing at the mental images though, sorry again.

Originally Posted by Pitch

Also Lommy, debacle =/= debate!

But sometimes a thing can be both...? *innocent face*

Originally Posted by Pitch

I'm not averse to voting Steve (cats destroyed my AltGr key, so I can't spell Eonwe properly anymore)

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Anyway, thanks guys - all of you, really, the QT was a great read! I now understand why Legate has been laughing aloud while playing.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Generally, I'm quite comforted by the fact that the dead were just as confused as the living. I was somewhat terrified you guys had figured everything out and were yelling us how can we be so stupid.

Meanwhile I spent two days in the middle there having visions of Seer-Boro showing up in the QT and spanking us for getting him killed/messing up his plan.

[Rikae]

Brinn - wow, here we all were in four different threads (thank you Hui, it's so fun to be a fly on the wall!) knocking ourselves out trying to find/protect/kill the seer (and considering everyone in the game at some point), and behind the scenes you were making these amazing well-thought out dream choices that really were what made the victory possible in the end. My great fear was that when the seer finally came out most of their dreams would be dead, and I initially doubted your reveal because they weren't! I think most seers would have fallen into the trap* of dreaming some of the more controversial people.

Originally Posted by Brinn

When I first wrote out that sentence, I didn't intend it to be a hint, but when I previewed my post I read it back and realized it could work as one and decided, sure why not? Felt low risk but fun enough to keep in.

Hopefully my previous post gives you all the details you need.

I should note that in general I'm not very good at leaving clues, but they were there, and I was consistent about all my dreams. For one, the only players I ever described as genuine were the ones I dreamt as innocent.

Thanks! I have an ongoing debate with myself about whether successful seers would hint at all in a dead thread game, and I'm selfishly pleased to have one data point saying they do. I love looking for hints, and leaving them.

*why do I keep using that phrase? It got me killed!

[Thinlómien]

It was an amazing game, absolutely crazy, so many of us innocents were wrong so many times but still we won because the wolves were equally bad at spotting the seer... great.

Sally, I'm so sorry. But the hunter really IS more fun when she gets to kill somebody, whatever the consequences.

Brinn, thanks again for saving the game for us, also amazing job saying hidden. To be picked on by the dead thread like that and still survive without revealing!

Boro, well *threateningly waves the pots and pans* I might be really mad but I am not because I figured it had to be you after Brinn revealed - you didn't really succeed in feigning enthusiasm nor had you replied anything reassuring to my speculations on your innocence the Day before, and besides I was convinced Rune and Lottie were innocent. I said I won't forgive you if you're a wolf, but given that you lost and we won, I'm feeling magnanimous so I might. Anyway, well played and a very gracious way to end it! I am pretty awed by your galaxy brain level scheming in this game.

Now I really want to read the QT but - as most of you probably know - I live with Legate and he has been constantly laughing aloud while reading the thread (while obviously never telling me what's so funny), so I'm a little terrified...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Sally, I'm so sorry. But the hunter really IS more fun when she gets to kill somebody, whatever the consequences.

It is, but it was so earlyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy! I was terrified I was going to take our last gifted with me, which is why I switched to Mac at the last moment, because I knew he was either a wolf or an ordo, and either way I preferred him to certain uncertainty. (Sorry again, Mac! There was a lot of panicked screaming over here that afternoon, I assure you.)

If it helps, I was convinced you were evil almost until the end.


On to cheers then. To the goodies first!

~

Massive kudos to Brinn for a role spectacularly played! Three cheers to the only gifted who managed to do her job and not get herself killed! Ahem.

I pegged you as the seer from close to the start and deliberately ignored you so I didn't get you killed with my fat mouth. Once I made it to the Dead Thread, the idea of us constantly voting for you (almost unanimously one Day!) was too good to pass up, and I knew it would cause enough chaos for your elegant self to hide behind.

~

Also kudos to Shasta for his valiant snackrifice, and for putting on such an entertaining show! Not so much for voting me though - my feathers are ruffled! (I jest!) I had suspicions you might be the Child but couldn't decide, and at one point I thought you had to be evil, though perhaps only because of the feather ruffling. <3

~

To Lottie, our little companion, many cheers to you as well. I read your "don't." post and somehow I just knew. You should have seen me hit the floor with my laptop and start frantically typing.

~

Last but not least, to Kit, who tried so hard but knee-jerked much like I did, resulting in her demise. It was still a joy to play with you, and a joy to hunt you right off the plague bat out of principle!



x'd with a host

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

To Lottie, our little companion, many cheers to you as well. I read your "don't." post and somehow I just knew. You should have seen me hit the floor with my laptop and start frantically typing.

I was like 80% sure you would pick it up, but it was such a nail-biting deadline! Also, that post was originally "DON'T.", but the Downs auto-uncaps it to "don't.", which actually conveyed the tone better...maybe the Downs itself was on my side.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Loslote

I was like 80% sure you would pick it up, but it was such a nail-biting deadline! Also, that post was originally "DON'T.", but the Downs auto-uncaps it to "don't.", which actually conveyed the tone better...maybe the Downs itself was on my side.

I also posted in all caps, which is how I realized you were freaking out.

[Lhunardawen]

PPS. If we kill Brinn, that would be a riot toMorrow. Hahaha.
PPPS. I need coffee.

Me on the Wolf Chat, Night 2. Moral lesson of the story, maybe: Start listening to caffeine-less self.

[Huinesoron]

Since I'm not sure how well this stuff will stay together in the archives:

The Game Thread

The Quarantine Thread / Infirmary / QT-bar

And here's the night-chats:

The Living Pack's Night-chat

Which I set up on Google Docs and then promptly got quarantined out of; I fully intend to read it tomorrow.

And finally:

QT Wolf Perpetual Night-Chat

Wherein I monologue about possible Seers, we laugh ourselves silly over the QT's belief in BoroSeer, and go out still trying to come up with plans for the Days that never came.

hS

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Last but not least, to Kit, who tried so hard but knee-jerked much like I did, resulting in her demise. It was still a joy to play with you, and a joy to hunt you right off the plague bat out of principle!

Sallycakes, you and are will be locked in this dance forever. I actually protected you Night 1 because I thought you'd make a good no trace kill.

Twas a lovely distraction from the real quarantine. I just wish I could keep up with all the posts throughout. I think Rune was onto something with a character limits game.

When Day 1 started and I was biting my nails trying to spot a wolf, my husband casually said "maybe I'll join the forum and play a game with you." I promptly screamed "you're not ready!" But really, is anyone ever ready for WW?

I missed you all!

[Brinniel]

I'm a little disappointed that I never got to play in the QT since I've never been in a dead thread before, but obviously it was more important that I stick around.

I must admit, I'm so proud of myself for actually succeeding in this role - I was a bit terrified when I learned I was the seer since I sort botched it last time I had the role (dreamt of Night kills, then got Night killed early on, yet the entire village couldn't figure out my dreams).

So my goal for this game was to stay alive as long as possible and dream of those who a) aren't likely to get quickly lynched or killed and b) wouldn't expect a seer-me to dream them. My plan was to leave clues but avoid being so obvious to point being caught and keep under the radar but not too much (I always think it's a good thing to be a little suspicious as the seer).

I did NOT expect to almost get lynched Day 1. That almost never happens to which is actually why I kept my cool when Rikae voted me - I wasn't expecting their suspicion of me to start a bandwagon. I think reading the wolves' conversation, they were wondering why I didn't reveal then - it crossed my mind, but after I saw all the votes and did the math I realized I probably didn't need to because Sally's vote wouldn't lynch me and I didn't expect Lalaith to return. It was a heart-pounding moment, but a risk that paid off.

As for my dreams, I PMed Nogs all my reasoning for who I chose each Night so that I could have somebody to talk at.

Night 1:

I chose Lommy because

First Nights are always tough, but this time I think it will be most helpful to pick someone who is an active participant and has a history of sticking around for several Days.

Night 2:

Phew...that was close!
Let's just pretend I meant for all that to happen.

In all seriousness, the Day has given me plenty to ponder over. There are certainly A LOT of players whose intentions I would like to know, but alas, I can only pick one.

I took some notes which helped me narrow it down to four, then down to one. So let's go with:

++Pitchwife

Right now I'm finding several players to be suspicious, Pitch included. The difference is that I think knowing his role (regardless of what it is) could be more telling of other players as well.

I can't remember who my other three suspects were - probably Inzil...and maybe Hui and Boro.

I can't believe how accurate that Hui bandwagon was from the innocents - there really wasn't any seer help there. I had a hunch that Hui might be evil the way he defended me the previous Day, but had not dreamt of him.

Night 3:

Why I chose Lhuna

There's plenty to scrutinize from yesterDay's later votes, which I think will be discussed heavily by the village toMorrow. So I would rather learn more about one of the earlier voters particularly someone who is flying under the radar as I imagine a wolf is hiding among them. Unfortunately that makes picking someone a shot in the dark, because I honestly have no clue which one could be evil!

This really was a lucky guess because I was very close to dreaming Greenie instead. I was quite gleeful that I found a wolf, yet I was not in a hurry to lynch her and make it too obvious. We had just lynched a wolf, so I knew I had an extra Day or two to observe her and hopefully find clues to other wolves. Unfortunately, she disappeared the next Day. I was actually a little bummed she got lynched the Day after because 1) I really wanted to lynch Inzil (sorry!) and 2) it was nice to have a known wolf in my back pocket should I need to reveal. The good thing was that since the village seemed set on lynching her, I was able to step back and go along with it without looking seerish to the remaining wolves.

My first reaction to Nogs after Lhuna's lynch:

Quarantine Thread stole my thunder.

Didn't realize it was actually evil Boro...

And Inzil, I never did dream you because you seemed like a viable lynch candidate and also I realized if I was wrong about you, doing a Legate180 would appear incredibly seerish. I did briefly doubt my suspicions for a little while because I wasn't sure two wolves would entangle themselves in the ranger debacle, but I just had to know your role and it had to be via lynch. (Again, sorry!)
See Night 3

After everything that happened, I find Inzil to be the most suspicious - so much so that I actually do not want to dream him because I think he may be a viable lynch candidate toMorrow, guilty or not. And even if he is innocent, I have concerns that an attempt for me to defend him may give seerish vibes. If he does survive the Day (and I'm still alive), I may revisit him.

and Night 5

I've now come to realize that I can't dream Inzil because in the scenario that I'm wrong about him and he's innocent, doing a 180 on him toMorrow could be a red flag to the wolves. It's driving me crazy - I just want to know what he is!

Night 4:

I had five players on my short list that Night. I considered Lottie, but thought if she were innocent, her reaction to Sally's hunt might hint seerness and get her killed. In the end I chose Shasta because

If he's a wolf, he's slipping under the radar. If he's innocent, his psychic powers weren't really working yesterDay, but maybe they'll pick up again later - and I find it less likely that he will be killed toNight.

Shasta, I have to echo Lommy from earlier in the game and wonder whatever happened to those psychic powers?

Night 5:

I was rereading yesterDay's events last night...and at some point fell asleep. Anyway, I'm just going to go with my gut because I think knowing his role will be most useful:

++Eonwe

And considering he became quite suspected later on, knowing his role was indeed helpful.

Night 6:

Now that I know Inzil is innocent, I'm come to realize I honestly have no clue who the final three wolves are! There are certain pairs I find unlikely, but even after going through past posts, I don't feel confident about anyone anymore.

I really was thrown - you guys really did a good job hiding from me too. If it weren't for process of elimination, I don't think I would've figured you out. Thus, my choice of Greenie was another shot in the dark.

Once I knew she was innocent, I starting grouping unknowns to figure out possible wolf pairings. In my handwritten notes, at one point, I did note Ka/Kath/Boro as the most likely trio. I was almost certain about the first two and less so about Boro.

As for the whole Boro-ploy. I did leave him alone that Night thinking he might be an ordo baiting the wolves. When he didn't die, I thought it might be because he was wrong about Eonwe and the wolves didn't fall for it. I tried to stay away from the discussion that Day in case it was a ploy to draw out the seer, but in all honesty, I thought him more likely to be innocent by the end of the Day for the same reasons Lommy gave.

Day 6 was tough for me because I had a RL Board meeting to attend during the last two hours and while I was able to monitor the thread, I could not actively write anything. If one of my unknowns had gone to QT overNight, I would have immediately revealed. But Pitch was chosen instead which had me weighing my options. I did the math and realized I probably could reveal and result in a win, however I felt less comfortable doing so without a confirmed wolf and should there be a counter reveal or the village not believe me, RL wouldn't allow me to defend myself. And anyway I thought there was enough seer talk for one Day. I decided I'd only reveal if a known innocent (i.e. Eonwe) was looking to be the primary lynch candidate. I even pre-wrote my reveal post (which was similar to the actual one I used) - that way I could just hit submit during my meeting if necessary. (I did the same with my vote.) The QT vote caused me to panic for a quick second and I thought really was going to have to reveal to save myself. Thankfully the village ignored their vote and smartly went with Ka.

Night 7:

That Night I thought there was a chance that my defense of Eonwe exposed me and I really thought I might get killed. If not me, I suspected it would be Greenie, but thankfully the wolves fell for Shasta's seer hints. I chose Kath because

If she's not evil, so help me..

And I really needed a known wolf.

I really was torn between Rune and Boro the last Day. Rune kept looking more like a frustrated innocent and Boro's last posts were rather fishy (especially when he tried to advise me on how to lead QT vote the next Day). Boro you were truly brilliant - I semi-suspected you for the first half of the game, but after you bused both Lhuna and Ka along with you claiming to be ordo pretending to be the seer, I was fairly convinced you were innocent. Right up until the end.

All of you baddies did a great job, really. If it weren't for my seer abilities, I really don't think I would've had you figured out and if you had found me, I think you most likely would've won the game because you definitely kept the village guessing.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

And Inzil, I never did dream you because you seemed like a viable lynch candidate and also I realized if I was wrong about you, doing a Legate180 would appear incredibly seerish. I did briefly doubt my suspicions for a little while because I wasn't sure two wolves would entangle themselves in the ranger debacle, but I just had to know your role and it had to be via lynch. (Again, sorry!)

That makes sense. Regardless of alignment, making it past Day 2 is often an accomplishment for me.
I find it perplexing that when a wolf, I get suspicion for seeming too careful. When innocent, it's because I say too much.

[Kath]

I'm so sad I didn't get a chance to play in the QT! But I love the self sacrifice motif at the end.

Brinn. You were seriously the village person of the game. My head and my analysis said she's got to be a contender for Seer, but it was always logic based not gut level because you were hiding so well so I never pushed for it. Huge kudos to you!

Lommy and Eonwe, you were sort of the wolves' people of the game. Eonwe you were so helpfully constantly suspicious and Lommy ... I mean ... leading a charge that ended up taking out the Hunter and then being so utterly convinced about Boro. You couldn't have been more helpful if you HAD been the Cobbler!

To my fellow wolves, thank you for such a fun game! Lhuna you nearly gave me a heart attack with that self vote Day 1; Ka I can't believe how incredibly you played especially with all the RL stuff going on; Hui my friend if we're ever wolves again I'm letting you go down in flames because that was hilarious and left no traces and I don't know how you did that; Boro I laughed every single time I read the game thread and watched you drop Seer hints left, right and centre and everyone else mildly panic about interacting with you as a result.

I think Ka said it at one point, using this place as a safe haven in a storm, and honestly I have had so much fun, and the majority of that has been all of you. It's been far too long.