Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, discussion thread

[Brinniel]

Has it really been almost three years since I last played? Yeesh.

I could use some distraction from our current reality. Count me in. I may be a bit rusty, but then again, I suppose we all are...

[Eönwë]

Ok, I’m in. It’s been too long.

[Urwen]

When will the game begin?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

That part in bold is just what I wanted to avoid. Back in those games those discussions took most of the air from the thread and people talked less about who to vote than how to best use the game mechanics and why the other thread should comply...

So yes, I was willing to make it more straightforward.

In that case, fair enough! If you took these into consideration, I'm up for it.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I think it has been the general rule that all the special abilities and advances the different gifts bring to people are negated in death aka. in quarantine. So no more dreams to the Seer, no more PM'ing with the other "Infectors" (wolves) by Night, no more hunting or rangering...

I think the Gifteds' abilities go without saying, they should not exist, especially since the quarantined still have the power to vote - otherwise a quarantined Seer could just spam everyone with names and that would be no fun.

The only thing I'm thinking about are the Wolves. Especially given that they are going to be vastly outnumbered by (this time known!) innocents, allowing them to PM (with only other quarantined Wolves, of course) might alleviate the ostracisation-feeling. Then again, it isn't such a big difference, plus if the first Wolf is quarantined alone for a long time, it won't change a thing. Most of all, it would be a narrative problem, how to explain that quarantined people still communicate. Unless you made it so that those awful people are breaking quarantine even inside the quarantine house and meeting with each other when other quarantined ones are sleeping. (Actually, that would be a reasonable narrative explanation... But whichever. Not being able to talk otherwise could give the Wolves an incentive to participate on the QT more actively.)

Originally Posted by Loslote

What if there's an extra win condition for the Dead Thread: "Your death was 'worth it' if The True Daughter of Hurin survives". Only the Dead know who that is, and they're voting to try to keep her alive. Could be a fun sub plot, and one that both villagers and wolves can work together on.

I like this idea. Something like that could be done.

Originally Posted by Kath

In terms of timings, I think a deadline of an hour before on the QT would give the LT enough time to dissect the vote to death before end of Day.

The only thing I am dreading about it is that usually in a normal game, the Day goes like this: people post one page throughout the Day, then one hour before DL, they post two pages or more if something like a Seer-reveal happens. I am a little bit afraid that this could further tip the balance and make the last hour suddenly spammed with analyses and shouts of frustration about what in the name of the sons of Fëanor are the Dead thinking, voting this person. It may be fun, but it may be terrifying.

But I am up for that, just one more thing to consider.

[Thinlómien]

Okay, so I finally read the rules and I like them! I prefer the dead (or the quarantined) actually casting a vote instead of empowering someone - as people have said, that's more straightforward and a little less distracting for the living. So a good idea!

However, I have one suggestion for improvement. Nogrod said that the most veteran "dead" would get the role of the tie-breaker if the quarantined disagree. Okay, that's one option, and that would make being lynched on Day1 kind of a consolation prize because you sort of become the leader of the quarantine for the rest of the game (makes being killed on Night2 the sad fate, I guess ).

But what about the most junior "dead" being the tie-breaker? This way it would change every Day, and possibly cause more chaos because the tie-breakers would have fresh grudges from the living thread in their minds. Of course, here the problem is that two people die for every lynch (the lynch and the night kill), so not everyone would get a go as the tie-breaker anyway. But I would give the tie-breaker role always to the previous lynchee - if it's the night kill, it cannot be a wolf (which is a little boring), and furthermore it might make sense storywise (the strongest in the qurantine is the one who was quarantined the last without showing any symptoms).

Third option is of course that the mod randomises the outcome in case of a tie. Or that it's the first one to get the top amount of votes. We do need to decide on a tie rule for the living thread too, anyway...

Thoughts?

Also, if we count the two last signups *waves* and the two wights in purgatory (errr) with their locked accounts, that makes 18 players. So, 4 wolves, seer, ranger and hunter?

[Nogrod]

Welcome Brinniel and Eönwë, long time no see!

Originally Posted by Urwen

When will the game begin?

It seems we could start whenever we want to, as we seem to have more or less a full village already. I would suggest starting on Sunday or Monday. That would mean we'd have about three days to let Sally and Macalaure try and make it into the 'Downs and make posts, and for us to finish the last issues about the rules.

I have one suggestion for improvement. Nogrod said that the most veteran "dead" would get the role of the tie-breaker if the quarantined disagree. Okay, that's one option, and that would make being lynched on Day1 kind of a consolation prize because you sort of become the leader of the quarantine for the rest of the game

That was what I was thinking about: die first and have something nice as a reward for your tough luck. But your suggestion of picking the latest arrival to be the tiebreaker makes sense game-mechancs-wise too. So let's still think about that.

(Btw. let's also remember, that the tiebreaker naturally is one who has voted for either/any top-vote candidate, so it isn't necessarily the same person every Day.)


What do you think of tiebreaking among the living / healthy? It has traditionally been either the first to get the votes (basically the "original suspect") or the last one (basically the one who's "under heat" just before the decision"). They have a bit different effect on the game mechanics depending on the situation and I'm quite open to either one. I'd rather not randomize it (will do it, if you insist it being the best way to do it).

Also, if we count the two last signups *waves* and the two wights in purgatory (errr) with their locked accounts, that makes 18 players. So, 4 wolves, seer, ranger and hunter?

Yay!

With 18 players surely four wolv... erm... Infestors.

Seer, ranger and hunter naturally.

I know Lommy would love to have a Cobbler as well, and with a bigger village it would make sense to add a little bit to the variety.


If we go to 20 or over, when do you think it would be reasonable to add a fifth baddie or start thinking about some other special roles?

Do you have any reservations or ideas about the size of the Village in the first place? Should we define a roof for the number of players we'd take in?

[Galadriel55]

What do you think of a no lynch or both killed idea for a Game Thread tie? I feel that first votes is rather unpopular because it doesn't reflect the latest developments, and last votes has caused a lot of frustration with people refreshing the page, trying to get their vote in on DL:00.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

What do you think of a no lynch or both killed idea for a Game Thread tie? I feel that first votes is rather unpopular because it doesn't reflect the latest developments, and last votes has caused a lot of frustration with people refreshing the page, trying to get their vote in on DL:00.

I have no strong feeling about this and would like to hear what the general opinion is. I kind of dislike the double-lynches or no-lynches - and kind of like the last minute frenzy, and the accompanied adrenaline rush, when people try to beat the clock at the last seconds (it's also quite telling sometimes, what people do in that frenzy - or say they tried to do). But yes, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.


Two questions.

The Deadlines.

I checked the timezones. If the Deadline would be Midnight here in Finland (GMT/UTC +3) I could write the narrations immediately after the Day has ended. Pushing it any further might start giving me problems to stay up and fresh everyday (there will be days I really need to get up early). That would make it one hour earlier (11PM) in continental Europe, and two hours earlier in London (10PM).

In the US the deadline would be according to the Eastern Time -7 hours (from Finland) aka. 5PM (Central Time would then be 4PM).

That's if I read the Daylight Savings stuff correctly.

How do these sound for you?

Anyone from somewhere else?


Game-start / number of players

I asked Sally and Macalaure in Fb whether they'd have enough time to sort their 'Downs-account problems if we'd start with Night1 on Sunday-evening (Sunday afternoon in the US)? So that would be my suggestion as for now.

What do you think about the number of Villagers, should we set a limit or should we let everyone willing to join who does it before the game starts?

In principle it would be nice to let everyone willing to play in, as it has been such a long time since the previous game - and big games do have a certain craziness of their own. But exactly that: huge games are a bit crazy - and kind of call for more roles or extra-rules, which I think are quite not how we were thinking of this in the beginning (a nice small old school game for a change ).

But yes, I'm quite okay with a larger game as well - and am not exactly pushing for added roles (just add more "wolves" if there are more Villagers), but probably the Cobbler.

[Macalaure]

Reporting for duty!

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

That would seem to have a large effect on the Quarantined votes. How likely are the Innocents there to listen to a known baddie?

Oh, you have no idea how much fun can be had as a known baddie in the dead thread.


Two cents or three

-So the dead have no extra knowledge outside of what dead gifteds may reveal?

-I'd prefer it if the quarantine vote is only revealed during the death narration. It wouldn't be much fun if a day's play just comes down to waiting to learn who the dead chose and then bandwaggon on that. And you know that's what's going to happen once a gifted is dead.

-If two wolves are dead, are they allowed to pm each other again?

-And if the QT lot essentially counts as one villager, can the living lynch the dead thread as a whole, too?


And sadly, any deadline works for me at the moment...

[Kath]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

-If two wolves are dead, are they allowed to pm each other again?

That's a good question. Nog said that the Gifted abilities won't last into the QT but given everyone there will know who the wolves are anyway from the narrations I actually can't see that this would do much harm, and would be fun for the wolves to be able to wonder how their remaining fellows are getting on without giving anything away.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

And if the QT lot essentially counts as one villager, can the living lynch the dead thread as a whole, too?

What is dead can never die but rises stronger and more contagious.


++junior dead as tiebreaker

++including a cobbler


As for a tie in the game thread, my usual position on this is 'last thought, best thought', but if we start with a large village of 20+ people double lynches could be a nice way of speeding things up and making the QT*, er, livelier.


*(I think I'm going to refer to the quarantined as Cuties henceforth.)