Songs for the Philologists - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Inziladun · 11-14-2019, 07:50 AM

I've heard of that collection before. Tolkien's incomparable use of language is, to me, one of the inexorable pulls of his works.
However, the study of words themselves never has commended itself to me especially.
Still, this is worth a look just to see the man revel in his passion.

William Cloud Hicklin · 11-20-2019, 09:18 AM

Well, the collection was certainly made with Tolkien's (and EV Gordon's) permission, since they made it! But the printed booklet certainly was done without, a decade after Tolkien left Leeds.

Huinesoron · 11-20-2019, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Well, the collection was certainly made with Tolkien's (and EV Gordon's) permission, since they made it! But the printed booklet certainly was done without, a decade after Tolkien left Leeds.

Ha, good catch. The fact that they were typed up for students is really interesting, because it might make sense of that caption on the cover:

Mál-rúnar skaltu kunna

Google Translate identifies this as Icelandic, and translates it as Know the Runes, but the actual translation looks a bit more... well, snarky. Still entirely by Google:

-Mál-rúnar, by itself, translates as 'speech-runes'.
-kunna is a form of 'be able to', 'can' (or maybe 'have').
-skaltu is translated as 'please', but alternate translations are 'do' or 'you should' - it's an imperative.

Which means, I think, that the entire thing comes out not as 'know the runes', but as:

Please learn the words!

hS

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 04-08-2020, 06:34 AM

I've been looking for a copy of this for years. Tom Shippey quotes from it in The Road to Middle-earth, but like many of Tolkien's less well-known work it was published in an obscure place. In this case it was a limited print run of an earlier booklet made as a teaching aid for the B or 'birch' (primarily linguistic) stream of the University of Leeds English school.

It doesn't surprise me that UCL was involved, since it's one of the centres for medieval English studies even today. It turns out that A.H. Smith, a former student at Leeds, was responsible for the printing.

To be fair to HarperCollins, the audience for a teaching aid in medieval studies, largely written in dead languages and long ago overtaken by scholarship, is doubtful. Probably the copyright is disputable between Leeds university and the estates of Tolkien, Gordon and the other contributors, and the questionable marketability of the work has made untangling the legal situation uneconomical. Still, here a copy is. Thanks for that one, hS. Éadig béo þu

11-14-2019, 07:50 AM	#1
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,039	I've heard of that collection before. Tolkien's incomparable use of language is, to me, one of the inexorable pulls of his works. However, the study of words themselves never has commended itself to me especially. Still, this is worth a look just to see the man revel in his passion. __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

11-20-2019, 09:18 AM	#2
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	Well, the collection was certainly made with Tolkien's (and EV Gordon's) permission, since they made it! But the printed booklet certainly was done without, a decade after Tolkien left Leeds. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

04-08-2020, 06:34 AM	#4
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh Spectre of Decay Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bar-en-Danwedh Posts: 2,178	I've been looking for a copy of this for years. Tom Shippey quotes from it in The Road to Middle-earth, but like many of Tolkien's less well-known work it was published in an obscure place. In this case it was a limited print run of an earlier booklet made as a teaching aid for the B or 'birch' (primarily linguistic) stream of the University of Leeds English school. It doesn't surprise me that UCL was involved, since it's one of the centres for medieval English studies even today. It turns out that A.H. Smith, a former student at Leeds, was responsible for the printing. To be fair to HarperCollins, the audience for a teaching aid in medieval studies, largely written in dead languages and long ago overtaken by scholarship, is doubtful. Probably the copyright is disputable between Leeds university and the estates of Tolkien, Gordon and the other contributors, and the questionable marketability of the work has made untangling the legal situation uneconomical. Still, here a copy is. Thanks for that one, hS. Éadig béo þu __________________ Man kenuva métim' andúne?