Riddles in the Downs - Page 80 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Urwen · 07-30-2019, 04:18 AM

I mean, look at the letters I've found yourself.

E, A, T
G, T, H
F, I, N,
C, B, N,

They don't spell any remotely coherent word

Huinesoron · 07-30-2019, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

But if I use the usual names, then the letters don't match up to any five-letter word character name. >.>

The answer is not a character name.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

I mean, look at the letters I've found yourself.

E, A, T
G, T, H
F, I, N,
C, B, N,

They don't spell any remotely coherent word

You have missed at least two letters for #1.
#2... oh, bother. Clue #2 is wrong, and should read 'and also his first'. Bother.
#3 you can narrow down by remembering that I said Celebrian also has the letter.
#4 you have correct.

It may interest you to know that the character for A is often not written down in Quenya-mode Tengwar. Thinking about why that might be may lead you to #5.

hS

Urwen · 07-30-2019, 04:45 AM

I dunno why that might be. Also, which names did I miss for one. Varda is her common name, is that it?

Huinesoron · 07-30-2019, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

I dunno why that might be. Also, which names did I miss for one. Varda is her common name, is that it?

It is indeed. (You also missed 'Gilthoniel', but Varda is definitely more common, if you happen to be Valinorean.)

hS

Urwen · 07-30-2019, 06:30 AM

Is the riddle answer Voice?

Huinesoron · 07-30-2019, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Is the riddle answer Voice?

Correct! V for Varda, O is actually in Melkor as well (oops, sorry again!), I for Finrod, Finduilas, and Celebrian, C for Celeborn and Celebrian, and E is the most common letter in English; Quenya doesn't always write the As, because they're so common that you can basically assume they're there if nothing else is.

And of course, your voice is what you use to tell a riddle.

Which is what you can now do.

hS

Urwen · 07-30-2019, 07:03 AM

A short, simple one:

Along the sea foam
In twilight I roam
My voice is strong
My lifespan is long

Urwen · 07-30-2019, 12:07 PM

It really is easy....

Huinesoron · 07-30-2019, 01:59 PM

Is it he who harps upon the far
forgotten beaches and dark shores
where western foam for ever roars,
Maglor whose voice is like the sea?

hS

Urwen · 07-30-2019, 02:11 PM

Indeed so. The twilight idea came from Pervinca's 'gloam'.

Huinesoron · 07-30-2019, 03:03 PM

It was a nice one - at first I got tangled up thinking of sea-dwellers, rather than a coastal wanderer.

Okay, so let's go this way:

Take four coins, add another one or two,
A ruler born, a ruler made, a ruler over stream,
Visit York, Lancaster, take a horse and you
Will find in the end a helper's hopeful dream.

hS

Urwen · 07-30-2019, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

It was a nice one - at first I got tangled up thinking of sea-dwellers, rather than a coastal wanderer.

hS

That was the intent.

Urwen · 07-30-2019, 11:38 PM

I assume your riddle is another cryptic one.

Huinesoron · 07-31-2019, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

I assume your riddle is another cryptic one.

You shouldn't; it's nothing like the last one.

hS

Urwen · 07-31-2019, 12:27 AM

But it mentions York and Lancaster, meaning it is cryptic, at least in part.

Huinesoron · 07-31-2019, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

But it mentions York and Lancaster, meaning it is cryptic, at least in part.

I guess?

hS

Urwen · 07-31-2019, 01:47 AM

Rosie Cotton?

Huinesoron · 07-31-2019, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Rosie Cotton?

No.

The entire riddle is relevant, not just some of the words.

hS

Urwen · 07-31-2019, 02:34 AM

The third line is Rose, though.

Huinesoron · 07-31-2019, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

The third line is Rose, though.

No, it isn't.

hS

Urwen · 07-31-2019, 03:32 AM

Then I don't understand.

Urwen · 07-31-2019, 03:35 AM

Although I'd say.....it's Sam.

Huinesoron · 07-31-2019, 04:17 AM

It's not Sam.

Consider each line separately (ignore 'and you' at the end of 3, that's just the start of line 4). Try to come up with an answer that works for every line. Consider that I have included both cryptic portions pointing at the precise name, and thematic (I guess) pieces talking about characteristics of the answer.

hS

Urwen · 07-31-2019, 04:22 AM

The answer is a ruler over stream?

Huinesoron · 07-31-2019, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

The answer is a ruler over stream?

What, you've not heard of the Narrow Bridge of the Petty-Dwarves, marked every inch to allow them to determine the exact speed of their crossing? I think it's from HoME XIII: The Weird Bits.

No, the answer is not a ruler over a stream. Nor was Bilbo telling Gollum about a blue- and green-skinned couple comparing each other's eyes.

Here are some questions that might run through my head if I was seeing this riddle for the first time:

-What coin would you have four of? Why would you add one or two? One or two what?
-What's a ruler? How do you make a ruler? Why would you have three? Is the third one 'over stream' from the other two?
-What do York and Lancaster have in common? What's the connection to a horse?
-Who is the helper? Who or what did they hope for? Is the dream literal?
-Are there any elements in my answers to the above that string together to point at one person, place, or thing in Middle-earth?

hS

Urwen · 07-31-2019, 07:54 AM

Well, you can have four quarters. The ruler is made by crowning them.

Galadriel55 · 07-31-2019, 08:34 AM

Well, my first thoughts too were in the line of Brittish history: the War of the Roses and the Bonnie Prince Charlie uprising. Way to mess with a head.

In any case, the only two cents I have to offer is that York and Lancaster are both houses and cities. That plus the horse points to Rohan's royalty and/or cities.

Huinesoron · 07-31-2019, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Well, you can have four quarters. The ruler is made by crowning them.

Both of these are true, but they're not the only true answers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Well, my first thoughts too were in the line of Brittish history: the War of the Roses and the Bonnie Prince Charlie uprising. Way to mess with a head.

Entirely deliberate, I assure you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

In any case, the only two cents I have to offer is that York and Lancaster are both houses and cities.

They are, but they're also more than that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

That plus the horse points to Rohan's royalty and/or cities.

Nope, not even close.

hS

Urwen · 07-31-2019, 09:42 AM

Four coins is also a band.

Huinesoron · 07-31-2019, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Four coins is also a band.

Apparently so! That's not relevant, though.

Looking at them, and thinking about the time the Beatles nearly ended up cast in an LotR movie, I'm wondering which of them would play which hobbit...

hS

Urwen · 07-31-2019, 10:06 AM

When we say ruler, are we referring to a king, queen etc. or a measuring tool?

Urwen · 07-31-2019, 10:08 AM

And the way a ruler is born......reminds me of Macbeth, where the title character was overthrown by a man born via a caesarean section. (and Tolkien was inspired by this to create the Ents)

Huinesoron · 07-31-2019, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

When we say ruler, are we referring to a king, queen etc. or a measuring tool?

No kings or queens, but definitely no measuring implements.

hS

Urwen · 07-31-2019, 11:00 AM

Then what kind of ruler is it?

Huinesoron · 07-31-2019, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Then what kind of ruler is it?

That's for me to know and you to figure out.

hS

Urwen · 07-31-2019, 11:29 AM

President? Magistrate? Prime minister? Prince? Princess?

Huinesoron · 07-31-2019, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

President? Magistrate? Prime minister? Prince? Princess?

Actually none of those either, which is pretty impressive.

hS

Galadriel55 · 07-31-2019, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

They are, but they're also more than that.

What, places with incomprehensible accents?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Actually none of those either, which is pretty impressive.

hS

Ah, clearly the Master of Laketown.

Huinesoron · 07-31-2019, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

What, places with incomprehensible accents?

^_^ If it helps, I was going to say York and Gloucester before the Lancaster misdirect occurred to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Ah, clearly the Master of Laketown.

Nope!

But thinking through titles of rulers/leaders in Middle-earth is probably the way to go.

All right, another hint: the three rulers are concurrent, not consecutive.

hS

Urwen · 07-31-2019, 01:36 PM

Celegorm, Curufin and Orodreth came to mind. They were all ruling Nargothrond at the same time

07-30-2019, 04:18 AM	#3161
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	I mean, look at the letters I've found yourself. E, A, T G, T, H F, I, N, C, B, N, They don't spell any remotely coherent word __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. Last edited by Urwen; 07-30-2019 at 04:22 AM.

07-30-2019, 04:45 AM	#3163
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	I dunno why that might be. Also, which names did I miss for one. Varda is her common name, is that it? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-30-2019, 06:30 AM	#3165
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Is the riddle answer Voice? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-30-2019, 07:03 AM	#3167
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	A short, simple one: Along the sea foam In twilight I roam My voice is strong My lifespan is long __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-30-2019, 12:07 PM	#3168
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	It really is easy.... __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-30-2019, 01:59 PM	#3169
Huinesoron Overshadowed Eagle Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea Posts: 3,957	Is it he who harps upon the far forgotten beaches and dark shores where western foam for ever roars, Maglor whose voice is like the sea? hS

07-30-2019, 02:11 PM	#3170
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Indeed so. The twilight idea came from Pervinca's 'gloam'. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-30-2019, 03:03 PM	#3171
Huinesoron Overshadowed Eagle Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea Posts: 3,957	It was a nice one - at first I got tangled up thinking of sea-dwellers, rather than a coastal wanderer. Okay, so let's go this way: Take four coins, add another one or two, A ruler born, a ruler made, a ruler over stream, Visit York, Lancaster, take a horse and you Will find in the end a helper's hopeful dream. hS

07-30-2019, 11:38 PM	#3173
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	I assume your riddle is another cryptic one. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-31-2019, 12:27 AM	#3175
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	But it mentions York and Lancaster, meaning it is cryptic, at least in part. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-31-2019, 01:47 AM	#3177
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Rosie Cotton? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-31-2019, 02:34 AM	#3179
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	The third line is Rose, though. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-31-2019, 03:32 AM	#3181
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Then I don't understand. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-31-2019, 03:35 AM	#3182
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Although I'd say.....it's Sam. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-31-2019, 04:17 AM	#3183
Huinesoron Overshadowed Eagle Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea Posts: 3,957	It's not Sam. Consider each line separately (ignore 'and you' at the end of 3, that's just the start of line 4). Try to come up with an answer that works for every line. Consider that I have included both cryptic portions pointing at the precise name, and thematic (I guess) pieces talking about characteristics of the answer. hS

07-31-2019, 04:22 AM	#3184
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	The answer is a ruler over stream? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-31-2019, 07:54 AM	#3186
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Well, you can have four quarters. The ruler is made by crowning them. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-31-2019, 08:34 AM	#3187
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,491	Well, my first thoughts too were in the line of Brittish history: the War of the Roses and the Bonnie Prince Charlie uprising. Way to mess with a head. In any case, the only two cents I have to offer is that York and Lancaster are both houses and cities. That plus the horse points to Rohan's royalty and/or cities. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

07-31-2019, 09:42 AM	#3189
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Four coins is also a band. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-31-2019, 10:06 AM	#3191
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	When we say ruler, are we referring to a king, queen etc. or a measuring tool? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-31-2019, 10:08 AM	#3192
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	And the way a ruler is born......reminds me of Macbeth, where the title character was overthrown by a man born via a caesarean section. (and Tolkien was inspired by this to create the Ents) __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-31-2019, 11:00 AM	#3194
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Then what kind of ruler is it? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-31-2019, 11:29 AM	#3196
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	President? Magistrate? Prime minister? Prince? Princess? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-31-2019, 01:36 PM	#3200
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Celegorm, Curufin and Orodreth came to mind. They were all ruling Nargothrond at the same time __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.