One Thing in Common - Page 29 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Pervinca Took · 05-23-2019, 12:48 PM

OK …

Bilbo
Frodo
Lobelia

Galadriel55 · 05-23-2019, 12:54 PM

Owners/dwellers of Bag-End?

Pervinca Took · 05-23-2019, 12:59 PM

Close, but not correct.

Bungo, Otho, Sam and Frodo Gardner would also belong to the list of owners.

And dwellers would include all the above, plus Belladonna, Rose, Lotho and all Sam's children.

Pervinca Took · 05-23-2019, 02:46 PM

I am going to change this slightly, back to the version I originally made:

Bilbo
Frodo
Sam
Lobelia

Urwen · 05-23-2019, 03:18 PM

Ordinary folks who were nonetheless able to stand up against evil?

(I will always remember how Lobelia beat up the ruffians with an umbrella)

Pervinca Took · 05-23-2019, 03:44 PM

I like your reasoning, but so was Tom Cotton, to name but one. And were those 4 hobbits really ordinary?

....

G55 was closer.

EDIT: I agree with you about Lobelia. It's nice that she was redeemed and kind of liked in the end ... despite what happened to her son.

Formendacil · 05-23-2019, 06:10 PM

Owners of Bag-End who gave it away while alive (i.e. rather than dying and it being inherited):

Bilbo -> Frodo (when he left after The Party)
Lobelia -> Frodo (after she was freed from Lockholes and returned to her own people)
Frodo -> Sam (when he left for the Havens)
Sam -> Frodo Gardner (when he left for the Havens)

Pervinca Took · 05-24-2019, 02:40 AM

Formendacil is right.

This was my original idea, which I changed to people who gave Bag End to someone who was not a direct descendant (and left it whilst still alive), but I decided that was too convaluted, and changed it back.

Over to Formendacil!

Formendacil · 05-24-2019, 04:33 PM

Hmmmmmm...

Eldarion, Elboron, Eldacar, Galador

Huinesoron · 05-31-2019, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Hmmmmmm...

Eldarion, Elboron, Eldacar, Galador

So. Two of these are children of an elf and a mortal (Eldarion, Galador). Two of them are the last named members of their lines (Eldarion, Elboron). All four of them are princes, but that doesn't seem specific enough.

Two of them are the first heir to a line - Eldarion to the house of Telcontar, Elboron to the Princeship of Ithilien. Galador is the founder of Dol Amroth, but is also the second known Prince of Belfalas (after his father). So are they all the second known to hold their title in a specific line?

Let's see what we can do with Eldacar. Hmm... since Isildur claimed the title of High King, Eldacar of Arnor (despite being much less exciting than his later southern cousin) was technically the second King of Arnor, after Valandil. So one possible answer is that they're the second known holder of/first known heir to their various titles.

Another answer, this time looking at Eldacar of Gondor, is that they're all children of two races. Eldarion and Galador are Elf-Man crosses; Elboron is Gondor/Rohan; and Eldacar of Gondor is son of a Gondorian father and a Northman mother (actually the same as Elboron, give or take a major migration). So that could also be what you're thinking of.

hS

Formendacil · 05-31-2019, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

So. Two of these are children of an elf and a mortal (Eldarion, Galador). Two of them are the last named members of their lines (Eldarion, Elboron). All four of them are princes, but that doesn't seem specific enough.

Two of them are the first heir to a line - Eldarion to the house of Telcontar, Elboron to the Princeship of Ithilien. Galador is the founder of Dol Amroth, but is also the second known Prince of Belfalas (after his father). So are they all the second known to hold their title in a specific line?

Let's see what we can do with Eldacar. Hmm... since Isildur claimed the title of High King, Eldacar of Arnor (despite being much less exciting than his later southern cousin) was technically the second King of Arnor, after Valandil. So one possible answer is that they're the second known holder of/first known heir to their various titles.

Another answer, this time looking at Eldacar of Gondor, is that they're all children of two races. Eldarion and Galador are Elf-Man crosses; Elboron is Gondor/Rohan; and Eldacar of Gondor is son of a Gondorian father and a Northman mother (actually the same as Elboron, give or take a major migration). So that could also be what you're thinking of.

hS

Your last formulation is closest, though I have a more specific fact in mind--i.e. Earendil would NOT share it.

Huinesoron · 05-31-2019, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Your last formulation is closest, though I have a more specific fact in mind--i.e. Earendil would NOT share it.

They're all boys whose mother was of a different race than that they are held as belonging to. All four were very much their fathers' sons.

I can't think of anyone else who meets that precise description - all the candidates fail one way or another (assuming Dior is taken to be Elvish).

hS

Formendacil · 05-31-2019, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

They're all boys whose mother was of a different race than that they are held as belonging to. All four were very much their fathers' sons.

I can't think of anyone else who meets that precise description - all the candidates fail one way or another (assuming Dior is taken to be Elvish).

hS

You're on the cusp of it. Specific to their shared mixed race situations, what do they have in common?

Urwen · 05-31-2019, 03:48 PM

Their fathers were all descendants of Numenoreans and their mothers were not?

Formendacil · 05-31-2019, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Their fathers were all descendants of Numenoreans and their mothers were not?

We have a winner!

(Specifically, I had it phrased in my mind as "children of Dúnedain fathers and non-Dúnedain mothers--but that's just the rose by another name).

On to Urwen.

Urwen · 06-01-2019, 02:16 AM

Turin, Eowyn, Sam

Huinesoron · 06-01-2019, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Turin, Eowyn, Sam

Hmm. Turin and Sam both stabbed monsters by getting underneath them, but I think Eowyn chopped the Witch-King's steed's head off, so probably not that.

hS

Urwen · 06-01-2019, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Hmm. Turin and Sam both stabbed monsters by getting underneath them, but I think Eowyn chopped the Witch-King's steed's head off, so probably not that.

hS

You're close.

Huinesoron · 06-01-2019, 02:46 AM

Both Sam and Eowyn were protecting someone when they went all monster-slayer, but... I feel like Glaurung just happened to be wandering past Brethil when Turin killed him? So not that either.

Was Eowyn using her own sword when she fought the Witch-King? The others weren't.

hS

Urwen · 06-01-2019, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Both Sam and Eowyn were protecting someone when they went all monster-slayer, but... I feel like Glaurung just happened to be wandering past Brethil when Turin killed him? So not that either.

Was Eowyn using her own sword when she fought the Witch-King? The others weren't.

hS

Well, for all intents and purposes, Gurthang was Turin's sword, for it was remade for him. And he was protecting his wife/sister along with entirety of Brethil inhabitants.

But no, what I had in mind is more on the general side of things.

Huinesoron · 06-01-2019, 03:09 AM

But not, I assume, as general as 'they're all monster-slayers'?

hS

Urwen · 06-01-2019, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

But not, I assume, as general as 'they're all monster-slayers'?

hS

Eh.....

In my defense, I just woke up.

Huinesoron · 06-01-2019, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Eh.....

In my defense, I just woke up.

I mean... they all killed non-humanoid monsters with swords. That's actually pretty specific, when you get down to it. Balrogs and trolls are humanoid, Smaug died to an arrow, Ungoliant isn't ever said to have gotten stabbed...

hS

Urwen · 06-01-2019, 03:23 AM

You're up.

Huinesoron · 06-01-2019, 04:22 AM

Um, okay, let's try this:

Feanor
Eol
Tar-Aldarion
Tarannon

Probably pretty easy.

hS

Urwen · 06-01-2019, 04:29 AM

Their wives were estranged from them?

Huinesoron · 06-01-2019, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Their wives were estranged from them?

Yep, simple as that. Back to you.

hS

Urwen · 06-01-2019, 06:42 AM

This one is pretty easy too.

Eldacar, Zimraphel, Helm Hammerhand

Huinesoron · 06-05-2019, 05:00 AM

Oh, they all had their thrones nicked, didn't they

hS

Urwen · 06-05-2019, 05:05 AM

Yea.

Huinesoron · 06-06-2019, 09:11 AM

Okay, so let's try something tricksy:

Fastred of Greenholm
Lily Brown
Bell Goodchild

... and no other named characters.

hS

Urwen · 06-06-2019, 09:20 AM

They are related to Sam, either via blood or marriage.

Huinesoron · 06-06-2019, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

They are related to Sam, either via blood or marriage.

They are indeed. So are a lot of other people.

hS

Urwen · 06-06-2019, 09:36 AM

There is very little known about them, and I can't think of anything else.

Huinesoron · 06-06-2019, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

There is very little known about them, and I can't think of anything else.

I'm afraid that's not the answer either.

But between the two you're kind of edging closer.

hS

Urwen · 06-06-2019, 10:17 AM

They had famous spouses?

Huinesoron · 06-06-2019, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

They had famous spouses?

Not really, but again, you're sort of edging closer.

hS

Urwen · 06-06-2019, 01:04 PM

I am befuddled..... *shrug emoji*

Huinesoron · 06-11-2019, 07:57 AM

Okay, so: Urwen, your three answers together almost (but not quite) hit the mark.

-They're all Sam's relatives (how do we know that?).
-We know little about them (how little?).
-Their spouses are better known than them (why?).

There is a specific document which is key to this one.

hS

Urwen · 06-11-2019, 08:30 AM

They were all mentioned in Red Book of Westmarch?

05-23-2019, 12:48 PM	#1121
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	OK … Bilbo Frodo Lobelia __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

05-23-2019, 12:54 PM	#1122
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,491	Owners/dwellers of Bag-End? __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

05-23-2019, 12:59 PM	#1123
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	Close, but not correct. Bungo, Otho, Sam and Frodo Gardner would also belong to the list of owners. And dwellers would include all the above, plus Belladonna, Rose, Lotho and all Sam's children. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 05-23-2019 at 01:03 PM.

05-23-2019, 02:46 PM	#1124
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	I am going to change this slightly, back to the version I originally made: Bilbo Frodo Sam Lobelia __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

05-23-2019, 03:18 PM	#1125
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Ordinary folks who were nonetheless able to stand up against evil? (I will always remember how Lobelia beat up the ruffians with an umbrella) __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-23-2019, 03:44 PM	#1126
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	I like your reasoning, but so was Tom Cotton, to name but one. And were those 4 hobbits really ordinary? .... G55 was closer. EDIT: I agree with you about Lobelia. It's nice that she was redeemed and kind of liked in the end ... despite what happened to her son. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 05-24-2019 at 03:56 AM.

05-23-2019, 06:10 PM	#1127
Formendacil Dead Serious Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers. Posts: 3,328	Owners of Bag-End who gave it away while alive (i.e. rather than dying and it being inherited): Bilbo -> Frodo (when he left after The Party) Lobelia -> Frodo (after she was freed from Lockholes and returned to her own people) Frodo -> Sam (when he left for the Havens) Sam -> Frodo Gardner (when he left for the Havens) __________________ I prefer history, true or feigned.

05-24-2019, 02:40 AM	#1128
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	Formendacil is right. This was my original idea, which I changed to people who gave Bag End to someone who was not a direct descendant (and left it whilst still alive), but I decided that was too convaluted, and changed it back. Over to Formendacil! __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

05-24-2019, 04:33 PM	#1129
Formendacil Dead Serious Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers. Posts: 3,328	Hmmmmmm... Eldarion, Elboron, Eldacar, Galador __________________ I prefer history, true or feigned.

05-31-2019, 03:48 PM	#1134
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Their fathers were all descendants of Numenoreans and their mothers were not? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

06-01-2019, 02:16 AM	#1136
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Turin, Eowyn, Sam __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

06-01-2019, 02:46 AM	#1139
Huinesoron Overshadowed Eagle Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea Posts: 3,957	Both Sam and Eowyn were protecting someone when they went all monster-slayer, but... I feel like Glaurung just happened to be wandering past Brethil when Turin killed him? So not that either. Was Eowyn using her own sword when she fought the Witch-King? The others weren't. hS

06-01-2019, 03:09 AM	#1141
Huinesoron Overshadowed Eagle Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea Posts: 3,957	But not, I assume, as general as 'they're all monster-slayers'? hS

06-01-2019, 03:23 AM	#1144
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	You're up. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

06-01-2019, 04:22 AM	#1145
Huinesoron Overshadowed Eagle Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea Posts: 3,957	Um, okay, let's try this: Feanor Eol Tar-Aldarion Tarannon Probably pretty easy. hS

06-01-2019, 04:29 AM	#1146
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Their wives were estranged from them? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

06-01-2019, 06:42 AM	#1148
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	This one is pretty easy too. Eldacar, Zimraphel, Helm Hammerhand __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. Last edited by Urwen; 06-01-2019 at 06:53 AM.

06-05-2019, 05:00 AM	#1149
Huinesoron Overshadowed Eagle Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea Posts: 3,957	Oh, they all had their thrones nicked, didn't they hS

06-05-2019, 05:05 AM	#1150
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Yea. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

06-06-2019, 09:11 AM	#1151
Huinesoron Overshadowed Eagle Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea Posts: 3,957	Okay, so let's try something tricksy: Fastred of Greenholm Lily Brown Bell Goodchild ... and no other named characters. hS

06-06-2019, 09:20 AM	#1152
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	They are related to Sam, either via blood or marriage. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

06-06-2019, 09:36 AM	#1154
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	There is very little known about them, and I can't think of anything else. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

06-06-2019, 10:17 AM	#1156
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	They had famous spouses? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

06-06-2019, 01:04 PM	#1158
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	I am befuddled..... shrug emoji __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

06-11-2019, 07:57 AM	#1159
Huinesoron Overshadowed Eagle Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea Posts: 3,957	Okay, so: Urwen, your three answers together almost (but not quite) hit the mark. -They're all Sam's relatives (how do we know that?). -We know little about them (how little?). -Their spouses are better known than them (why?). There is a specific document which is key to this one. hS

06-11-2019, 08:30 AM	#1160
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	They were all mentioned in Red Book of Westmarch? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.