The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > The New Silmarillion > Translations from the Elvish - Public Forum
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-04-2019, 04:07 PM   #1
Findegil
King's Writer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,721
Findegil is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
1) That is okay for me.

2) RSO-SL-27.1: I am okay with removal in the first foot note.
RSO-SL-27.8: But I am more reluctant in the second instance: ‘As the narrative suggests’ can as well mean the text at hand. So I think it is ambiguous enough to be keept.

3) RSO-SL-27.7: First the intended meaning: Gandalf is not active in the Battle of the Fords of Isen. He is only mentioned as the one who got a full report of the events. Therefore it is Erkenbrand who was defeated, but nonetheless drove away southwards part of Sarumans forces. That is way I am as well not in full support of the added ‘the’ in the next sentence. As the battle was a defeat for the forces of the Westfold led by Erkenbrand, the ‘remnants of Saruman’s force’ can only be a fraction of that force and all that isleft of it, as the ‘the’ does suggest.
Lets see how we can reconstruct what we know about that last part of the Second Battle of the Fords of Isen: Elfhelm and his riders were driven away eastward in the Second Battle. Grimbold and his man were scatter and moved south on the eastside of the road to Helm’s Deep. Erkenbrand was on the road hastening to the Ford. Saruman’s Eastern force had already passed south cross country, while Saruman’s Western force was on the Road from the Ford to Helm’s Deep.
From that picture we can assume that the last part of the Second Battle was fought only between Erkenbrand and the western forces of Saruman. In the end Erkenbrand was defeated fast, but he drove of part of Saruman’s forces to the south (meaning clearly the Land between Isen and Ered Nimrais, so that it is rather southwest and anyhow west of the road) and his own trops remained intact.
We are farther told that Gandalf meet Elfhelm and Grimbold on his way to and for Isengard, which must mean that Elfhelm drifted back westward when the Eastern forces of Saruman had passed to the south and that Grimbold did not find Erkenbrand before that last part of the Battle was joined. In the end we see Gandalf, Erkenbrand and Grimbold coming together to the rescue of Helm’s Deep, while Elfhelm guarded the Fords of Isen. I asume that Gandalf found an united the forces of Grimbold and Erkenbrand on his return from Isengard.
So what about this editing:
Quote:
What followed is less clear, since only Gandalf had full knowledge of it. He received news of the disaster only in the late afternoon of March the {3rd}third. RSO-SL-27.5<based on LotR, Appendix B By this time was Erkenbrand defeated{.}> RSO-SL-27.7<based on UT; The Drúedain; Note 13 , even so he <moved from below had{ been} driven away southwards parts<moved from below of Saruman’s forces>{A marginal jotting states that after}. After the Battle of the Fords of Isen it was found that many Drúedain did indeed survive in the Drúwaith Iaur, for they came forth from the caves where they dwelt to attack remnants of Saruman's forces that had been driven away southwards.> ...
4) Thanks for pointing us to it.

Respectfully
Findegil
Findegil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2019, 05:43 PM   #2
gandalf85
Wight
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 121
gandalf85 has just left Hobbiton.
2) OK, keeping the second "narrative" is fine with me.

3) Thanks for the explanation, Fin. I like the addition of "even" to make it "even so" but grammatically I think it needs to be a new sentence:

Quote:
RSO-SL-27.5<based on LotR, Appendix B By this time was Erkenbrand defeated.> RSO-SL-27.7<based on UT; The Drúedain; Note 13 Even so he <moved from below had{ been} driven away southwards parts<moved from below of Saruman’s forces>
gandalf85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2019, 11:52 AM   #3
ArcusCalion
Quentingolmo
 
ArcusCalion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
ArcusCalion has just left Hobbiton.
These changes are wonderful, agreed to both.
ArcusCalion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2019, 07:46 PM   #4
gandalf85
Wight
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 121
gandalf85 has just left Hobbiton.
There is a small part in the "End of the Third Age" chapter which I think fits better here:

Quote:
There was held the great Council of Elrond, at which it was ETA-SL-03.9b <UT Sources of the Legend of Isildur’s Death {Long afterwards, as the Third Age of the Elvish World waned and the War of the Ring approached, it was} revealed {to the Council of Elrond} that the Ring had been found, sunk near the edge of the Gladden Fields and close to the western bank; though no trace of Isildur's body was ever discovered. They were also then aware that Saruman had been secretly searching in the same region; but though he had not found the Ring (which had long before been carried off), they did not yet know what else he might have discovered.> It was decided to attempt the destruction of the Ring, and Frodo was appointed the Ring-bearer.
gandalf85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2019, 10:14 PM   #5
ArcusCalion
Quentingolmo
 
ArcusCalion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
ArcusCalion has just left Hobbiton.
This works well, I agree to it. This should be marked RSO-SL-23.5 however because it is an addition to this chapter, even if it was earlier placed elsewhere.
ArcusCalion is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:42 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.