The Stewards

[Findegil]

1) & 2) Agreed.

3) Nice that both of you like it.

4) Agreed.

5) Yes, it clearly is cannon that Gandalf did not know from whom he got the key and the map.

6) It is true that the dwarves were employed as road menders, but here the perspective is different: If we would make this change we would state that the Hobbits employed the dwarves as road menders. Do we konw that for sure? I don’t think so.

7) & 8) Agreed.

9) Okay, I see that I did not reach what I wanted. I think this will make my goal clearer:

… There all the company mounted again.> TS-QE-36<HoMe 6;From Weathertop to the Ford The Road looped away southward, towards the river> TS-QE-37<HoMe 6;From Weathertop to the Ford {‘That is} Loudwater, the Bruinen of Rivendell. {,’ answered Strider. ‘}The Road {runs}run along it for many leagues to the Ford.{’}>
TS-QE-38<Appendix A The story is told elsewhere of what came {of that meeting: of the strange plan that Gandalf made for the help of Thorin}after TS-QE-38.1<Hobbit one of the ponies took fright at nothing and bolted{. He} and got into {the}that river before they could catch him>, and how Thorin and his companions set out from {the Shire}Rivendell on the quest of the Lonely Mountain that came to great ends unforeseen.>FY-HL-15b<
Of the Finding of the Ring
>TS-FR-00.5<ORP {the}The matter would scarcely have concerned later history, or earned more than a note in the long annals of the Third Age, but for an ‘accident’ by the way.>TS-FR-01b<LotR; Of the Finding of the Ring The party was assailed by Orcs in a high pass of the Misty Mountains as they went towards Wilderland; …

10) Agreed.

11) A good addition. And I think we should keep more of it. What about this:

… and reared once again the dark towers of Barad-dûr. TS-QE-44<The Quest of Erebor, Appendix And yet that was not his original plan; and it was in the end a mistake. <The Quest of Erebor, Appendix {They will}Sauron and Smaug would have helped one another{.” And they certainly would have done so,} if {I}the Council had not attacked Dol Guldur at the same time.> Resistance still had somewhere where it could take counsel free from the Shadow.{ How could the Ringbearer have escaped, if there had been no Lórien or Rivendell?} And those places might have fallen{, I think,} if Sauron had thrown all his power against them first, and not spent more than half of it in the assault on Gondor.> And in that year the White Council met for the last time, …

12) Realy a good catch. Agreed.

13) It is so good for the quality of our text to have reader who gives feed back.

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

Fin:

9) Agreed

11) agreed

[gandalf85]

6) Yes, you're right, we're not completely sure that dwarves were employed as road-menders specifically on the East Road. So let's keep "it would also appear that".

11) Agreed.

13) I agree with keeping more of it, but I am unsure about one part.

Resistance still had somewhere where it could take counsel free from the Shadow.{ How could the Ringbearer have escaped, if there had been no Lórien or Rivendell?} And those places might have fallen{, I think,} if Sauron had thrown all his power against them first, and not spent more than half of it in the assault on Gondor.> And in that year the White Council met for the last time, …

It seems to me that the "assault on Gondor" referred to here is specifically talking about the siege of Minas Tirith and the Battle of Pelennor Fields, both of which haven't happened in our narrative yet. It is true that Mordor has been at war with Gondor for quite a while, so maybe this is talking about previous assaults (like the taking of Minis Ithil) but I'm not sure. This statement is immediately following one about the Ringbearer, so I'm assuming it's referring to an event which happens at the same time. What do you guys think?

[ArcusCalion]

That sort of very limited spoiler is, I think, fine. It reveals very little about the nature of the further narrative, so I think it is ok to leave it. We have similar vague call-forwards in previous chapters.

[gandalf85]

Yeah, you're right, it is a pretty vague "call-forward". OK, I agree to keep it.

[gandalf85]

There is a footnote mentioning Balin in the "Hunt for the Ring" chapter, and I figured we should include Balin's expedition to Moria in the main text. The Tale of Years only contains for the entry 2989: "Balin leaves Erebor and enters Moria." However, Return of the Shadow contains a lengthier description which is not in the final published FotR. I propose we place it in "Of the Finding of the Ring" before TS-SL-07b. TS-FR-03 describes Bilbo returning home, so it has to come after that. Here is the text:

Orcs were mustering ... given thought to them.>
TS-FR-05 <Return of the Shadow; In the House of Elrond {'}Balin took to travelling again{,' he answered. 'You may have heard that h}. He visited Bilbo in Hobbiton {many years ago: well,}, and not very long after that he went away for two or three years. Then he returned to the Mountain with a great number of dwarves that he discovered wandering masterless in the South and East. He wanted Dain to go back to Moria - or at least to allow him to found a colony there and reopen the great mines. {As you probably know, }Moria was the ancestral home of the dwarves of the race of Durin, and the forefathers of Thorin and Dain dwelt there, until they were driven by the goblin invasions far into the North. Now Balin reported that Moria was again wholly deserted, since the great defeat of the goblins, but the mines were still rich, especially in silver. Dain was not willing to leave the Mountain and the tomb of Thorin, but he allowed Balin to go, and he took with him many of the folk of the Mountain as well as his own following; and Ori and Oin went with him. For many years things went well, and the colony throve; there was traffic once more between Moria and the Mountain, and many gifts of silver were sent to Dain. Then fortune changed. {Our messengers}The messengers of the Dwarves of the Mountain were attacked and robbed by cruel Men, well-armed. No messengers came from Moria; but rumour reached {us}the Mountain that the mines and dwarf-city were again deserted. For long {we}they could not learn what had become of Balin and his people - but {now we have}then they had news, and it {is}was evil. {It is to tell these tidings and to ask for the counsel of - of those that dwell in Rivendell that I have come. But to-night let us speak of merrier things!}>

TS-SL-07b <Appendix A Fengel {He} was ...

I'm unsure if we should keep the bit at the end about the news being evil. It doesn't explicitly say that the "evil news" is the death of Balin, which Gimli is obviously surprised about in FotR. I think this works here as ambiguous foreshadowing.

I think we should also include the fate of Balin later on, possibly in the "Treason of Isengard" chapter when the company arrives at Moria. I will look for something to add when I post my comments on that chapter.

[ArcusCalion]

I like this very much! Have we mentioned Balin at all before this? If not we may need to.