The Ring Sets Out

[ArcusCalion]

Some good notes Fin! Sorry I was confused.

RSO-SL-01, RSO-SL-01.5, and TS-SL-14: I am glad you agree to the shift, and now that I know that the title has a Tolkien source, I agree to use it, but I think it would be better as a subheading in the chapter The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen. If you think we should then put the RSO additions into the beginning of The Hunt for the Ring then I agree, and I agree to the change to HR-SL-01 if that is the structure you prefer, but personally I am fine with leaving them all under the subheading in The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen.

FY-HL-17.5: I did not mean the brackets would be included in the text, they were just for clarification of my comment. That part of the title would just be in the second line, perhaps in smaller font.

FY-HL-18.5: I see your structure and I think it is a good idea. However, I think a better title would be The Shadow Lengthens instead of The Ring in the Shadow, since that title refers to the journey of Frodo and Sam. We could use that subheading in the next chapter.

[Findegil]

RSO-SL-01, RSO-SL-01.5 and TS-SL-14: I am also okay with keeping these together under a sub-heading within The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen.

FY-HL-16.5 and FY-HL-21: I can understand your desire to use The Ring in the Shadow in a later place. I have no problem to use both The Shadow Grows and The Shadow Lengthens, but I would switch these. For me, but that is of course a bit personal feeling, ‘Grows’ is ‘stronger’ more menaceing verb, while ‘Lengthens’ is less threatening, since it is more natural: If the sun goes down every shadow will lengthen, so the object that does creat the shadow has still the same size. But if the shadow grows, the assumption is that the object casting the shadow grows.
To be clear I would use FY-HL-16.5c The Shadow Lengthens for ‘Giving the account of Denethor and his sons and of Bilbo leaving the shire’ in the chapter The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen and FY-HL-21b The Shadow Grows for ‘The journey of the Fellowship to Rauros and then farther on to Rohan’ in the chapter The Treason of Isengard.

FY-HL-17.5: I don’t see the smaller font, but we could repress it from going into the contents.

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

FY-HL-16.5/21: Agreed, this makes sense.

FY-HL-17.5: Yeah this is a small matter, we don't need to spend time on it. We are essentially in enough agreement to move forward.

I must say, the structuring changes of the past few chapters have been crazy, but the final result is sooo much better than any of the original ideas, so thank you Fin!

[Findegil]

As I said before I am not happy with the Battle oft he Hornburg not descript after a long account oft he battle oft he ords of Isen. But as I did not find any material to work with (since it is not given, Christopher Tolkien concentrats on the drafts that show differences and leaves out all drafts that are similar to the later story in his treatmeant of the Helm’ Deep) we can not amand that point. Therefore I think the supposed sub-headline ‘* * *’ is unnecessary. But nonetheless I would like to change the agaranment of the text’s slightly:

RSO-SL-25{The second part (Books Three and Four), The Two Towers, recounted}Among the deeds of all the company after the breaking of the Fellowship ...
...
...
...
... With him they rode over Rohan to the halls of King Théoden of the Mark, where Gandalf healed the aged king, and rescued him from the spells of RSO-SL-26<editorial addition Gríma> Wormtongue, his evil counsellor, secret ally of Saruman. They rode then with the king and his host against the forces of Isengard{, and took part in the desperate victory of the Hornburg}.>FY-HL-19b<
The Battles of the Fords of Isen
>RSO-SL-27<BFI The chief obstacles to an easy conquest of Rohan by Saruman were Théodred and Éomer ...
...
...
...
What followed is less clear, since only Gandalf had full knowledge of it. He received news of the disaster only in the late afternoon of March the {3rd}third. RSO-SL-27.5<based on LotR, Appendix B By this time was Erkenbrand defeated.> RSO-SL-27.7<based on UT; The Drúedain; Note 13 So he <moved from below had{ been} driven away southwards parts<moved from below of Saruman’s forces>{A marginal jotting states that after}. After the Battle of the Fords of Isen it was found that many Drúedain did indeed survive in the Drúwaith Iaur, for they came forth from the caves where they dwelt to attack remnants of Saruman's forces that had been driven away southwards.> {The}In the late afternoon of March the third the King was{ then} at a point not far east of the junction of the Road with the branch going to the Hornburg. From there it was about ninety miles in a direct line to Isengard; and Gandalf must have ridden there with the greatest speed that Shadowfax could command. He reached Isengard in the early darkness, [Footnote to the text: As the narrative suggests, Gandalf must already have made contact with Treebeard, and knew that the patience of the Ents was at an end; and he had also read the meaning of Legolas' words: Isengard was veiled in an impenetrable shadow, the Ents had already surrounded it.] and left again in no more than twenty minutes. Both on the outward journey, when his direct route would take him close to the Fords, and on his return south to find Erkenbrand, he must have met Grimbold and Elfhelm. They were convinced that he was acting for the King, not only by his appearance on Shadowfax, but also by his knowledge of the name of the errand-rider, Ceorl, and the message that he brought; and they took as orders the advice that he gave. Grimbold's men he sent southward to join Erkenbrand.> RSO-SL-28<editorial addition Thus they came to the Battle of the Hornburg in time to win the field.>
RSO-SL-28.5<Letter to Milton Waldman{They roder then}Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas with the king and his host{ against the forces of Isengard, and} took part in the desperate victory of the Hornburg Hornburg <moved from above against the forces of Isengard>. Gandalf then led them to Isengard, and they found the great fortress in ruins by the Tree-folk, and Saruman and Wormtongue besieged in the indomitable tower of Orthanc.>
TI-SL-01<LotR Synopsis In the parley before the door Saruman refused to repent, ...

I added RSO-SL-27.5 and RSO-SL-27.7 as these make more clear what happend in the Second Battle of the Fords of Isen, and moved the complet text of The Battels of the Fords of Isen a bit to collect the few mentions we have of the Battle of the Hornburg.

As all that is left of the Appendices that ArcusCalion had planed is only The Marshals of the Mark I wonder if we should not give this text here as an Appendix to this chapter.

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

I agree to these changes, very nicely done!

[Findegil]

What about The Marshals of the Mark?

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

You said in your comments in the outline thread that it would be better moved to Volume 3 to stand next to such things as The Sources of the Legend of Isildur's Death, The Istari and The Rivers and Beacon Hills of Gondor. I think that is the better placement.