Potential Middle Earth movies in the future?

[Faramir Jones]

Eldorion, I agree that the problem with trying to film The New Shadow is that there's only a fragment starting the story, with nothing else written by Tolkien about it, not even a summary, framework, or timeline.

My own suggestion is that Aldarion and Erendis: The Mariner's Wife would be a good story to film. It has both politics and romance, the romance going wrong having serious political implications, with a twist in the tale being the revelation of why Aldarion spent so much time away from Numenor. Even if there are only fragments at the end, there are enough so that part of the story can be reconstructed. There would be the option, however, to end the story with Tar-Meneldur making known his decision to abdicate...

What do people think?

[Huinesoron]

The trouble with Aldarion and Erendis is that it's so unrelentingly bleak. It's not like the Fall of Numenor or something, where the ending is that the bad people get destroyed while the good ones get away despite their losses - the end result of A&E is that the miserable people stay miserable. Forget about A&E themselves, Ancalime has a horrible life, and even her grandchildren are affected by the events (her granddaughters feared her and refused the throne on account of her). That's five generations, counting from Meneldur, who just can't catch a break on account of one bad romance.

It's true that films with miserable endings have their place, but - even assuming you could get audiences to go for a downer ending in a fantasy movie - I don't feel like it's true to the spirit of Tolkien. With the exceptions of Aldarion and Erendis and The Children of Hurin, all of his substantial stories end with both loss and hope. A&E doesn't have the latter.

hS

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

It's true that films with miserable endings have their place, but - even assuming you could get audiences to go for a downer ending in a fantasy movie - I don't feel like it's true to the spirit of Tolkien. With the exceptions of Aldarion and Erendis and The Children of Hurin, all of his substantial stories end with both loss and hope. A&E doesn't have the latter.

I don't see Aldarion and Erendis as being completely hopeless. After all, if not for Aldarion, first as the King's Heir, giving legitimacy and respectability to the Venturers and their Middle-earth voyages, and establishing the first non-Eldarin ports, would it have been possible for the much later defeat of Sauron by Tar-Minastir?

Not to say, though, that such an eventual fruit would be thought 'positive' enough for modern film. I can more easily see a chastened Aldarion renouncing his 'toxic masculinity' and foregoing his seafaring, then putting forth Erendis as a much wiser, 'caring' person for Ruling Queen, and then dedicating his life to shepherding and tree-planting.

[Mithadan]

If I recall Zaentz acquired the rights to The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings only. This included characters, locations, etc, as well as materials in the appendices. Zaentz does not have the rights to the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales or HoME and cannot use stories or characters found therein (except to the extent that they are mentioned in LoTR and The Hobbit).

Theoretically, the company can create new works based upon locations, characters and story fragments from the works it has rights to. This is apparently what is happening with the planned series.

[Faramir Jones]

Thank you for your replies, Huinesoron and Inziladun!

Huinesoron, you have a point here:

The trouble with Aldarion and Erendis is that it's so unrelentingly bleak.

But I would say that it's far from being as bleak as some stories in Game of Thrones. It would be an interesting challenge for a film maker, who wouldn't have as props drugs (including alcohol), swearing, violence (including war) and illicit sex...

When you mentioned this:

Forget about A&E themselves, Ancalime has a horrible life, and even her grandchildren are affected by the events (her granddaughters feared her and refused the throne on account of her). That's five generations, counting from Meneldur, who just can't catch a break on account of one bad romance.

I would have to add another generation to this, making a total of six. Tar-Ancalimë's great-granddaughter was Tar-Telperiën, the Second Ruling Queen. What is interesting is that she refused to marry and had no children, being succeeded by her nephew, Tar-Minastir, son of her younger brother Isilmo. Her decision to not marry may have been influenced by her great-grandmother's doing so as a matter of policy, not love.

I agree with you, Inziladun, in that an adaptation of the story could point this out:

After all, if not for Aldarion, first as the King's Heir, giving legitimacy and respectability to the Venturers and their Middle-earth voyages, and establishing the first non-Eldarin ports, would it have been possible for the much later defeat of Sauron by Tar-Minastir?

However, I'm inclined to also agree that this could be a possible result of an attempt to film the story:

I can more easily see a chastened Aldarion renouncing his 'toxic masculinity' and foregoing his seafaring, then putting forth Erendis as a much wiser, 'caring' person for Ruling Queen, and then dedicating his life to shepherding and tree-planting.

That already reads like a mess.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

It's true that films with miserable endings have their place, but - even assuming you could get audiences to go for a downer ending in a fantasy movie - I don't feel like it's true to the spirit of Tolkien. With the exceptions of Aldarion and Erendis and The Children of Hurin, all of his substantial stories end with both loss and hope. A&E doesn't have the latter.

Of these two, I think COH has a better possibility of making a good movie. It has a faster-moving storyline. If A&E is to be made into a movie, they'd need to twist some politics plots to keep interest. But the beauty of this movie could be an ending of flashes of scenes, or just text, briefly stating the fates of all the subsequent generations.

The problem with COH is that so many different places and people are involved, and it's hard to introduce all their backgrounds and motivations in a single movie. But if the intended audience is one that is familiar with Beleriand, or certain details are glossed over, it could work out. Really though, I think COH could make a good play. With Glaurung never actually shown, but implied to be there by actors' reactions - like the Giants in many versions of Into The Woods. It's definitely dramatic enough for a play, but maybe a tad long - so perhaps some of Turin's adventures would be cut. I would go see a play like that.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

The trouble with Aldarion and Erendis is that it's so unrelentingly bleak.

To contemporary audiences that seems like a positive trait.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

The fatal problem with A&E is that it's a relationship story, not an action-adventure at all: a Hallmark Channel costume drama. No battles, no swordfights, no dragons, no magic spells, no shield-surfing or avalanche-climbing. Just people standing around talking about messed-up marriages, convoluted politics, and a made-up religion/cosmology nobody in the audience understands. Kramer vs. Kramer in Numenorean costumes isn't exactly box-office boffo.