Potential Middle Earth movies in the future?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Anyone who thinks Shadow of Mordor has any connection to Tolkien whatsoever beyond some nomenclature licensed from the Tower of Orzaentz should be legally barred from ever touching a Tolkien-oriented project.

The thing about SoM is you play it, and you go 'yeah, I can see what they're trying for here, it's not where I'd take it but it's a reasonable guess at Orc society in Mordor'... and then you take on another main storyline mission and find out that (uh, spoilers I guess?) Gollum is Celebrimbor's biggest fan, or Talion the Half-Nazgul is super down with helping orcs for some reason, or Sauron's war-leaders all hide somewhere and never go near their troops unless someone kills their favourite pig or whatever.

And then you go 'wut'.

(Also it becomes increasingly clear that the developers think Eregion was in Mordor, which is all manner of messed up.)

Originally Posted by Zigûr

I wonder if they saved or lost money by splitting the project into three films when it was originally meant to be two.

You'd also need to wonder whether they made more money by adding the extra stuff. Ignore the extra tickets just from having three films - how many people did they draw in by having Cate Blanchett and Christopher Lee in there? They're both popular actors; I'm sure they sold a few seats. (And in contrast, I doubt very many people went 'well, I was all for it when it was two movies, but three? They're not getting my money!'. Maybe some, though.)

Also there's all the money they must have made from the theme park... what? Whaddaya mean there wasn't one? But... the barrel ride! The thing with the molten gold! DoS was blatantly an advert for their big rollercoasters!

hS

[Aaron]

You couldn't make a movie about it of course, but would anyone else like to see a short film based on The New Shadow? What Tolkien wrote was very dialogue heavy, but dripping in menace and unease, and I could see it working very well if someone were to try and put it to film.

[Eldy]

The New Shadow is intriguing as a fragment but I don't really want to see someone who is not Tolkien try to extend it; at least not as a licensed adaptation that a lot of people would interpret it as "official" in some way. But I don't think an adaptation that broke off at the same place as the text, before there's any payoff to any of the ideas that are introduced, would be very satisfying. I can see how others disagree, though.

[Faramir Jones]

Eldorion, I agree that the problem with trying to film The New Shadow is that there's only a fragment starting the story, with nothing else written by Tolkien about it, not even a summary, framework, or timeline.

My own suggestion is that Aldarion and Erendis: The Mariner's Wife would be a good story to film. It has both politics and romance, the romance going wrong having serious political implications, with a twist in the tale being the revelation of why Aldarion spent so much time away from Numenor. Even if there are only fragments at the end, there are enough so that part of the story can be reconstructed. There would be the option, however, to end the story with Tar-Meneldur making known his decision to abdicate...

What do people think?

[Huinesoron]

The trouble with Aldarion and Erendis is that it's so unrelentingly bleak. It's not like the Fall of Numenor or something, where the ending is that the bad people get destroyed while the good ones get away despite their losses - the end result of A&E is that the miserable people stay miserable. Forget about A&E themselves, Ancalime has a horrible life, and even her grandchildren are affected by the events (her granddaughters feared her and refused the throne on account of her). That's five generations, counting from Meneldur, who just can't catch a break on account of one bad romance.

It's true that films with miserable endings have their place, but - even assuming you could get audiences to go for a downer ending in a fantasy movie - I don't feel like it's true to the spirit of Tolkien. With the exceptions of Aldarion and Erendis and The Children of Hurin, all of his substantial stories end with both loss and hope. A&E doesn't have the latter.

hS

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

It's true that films with miserable endings have their place, but - even assuming you could get audiences to go for a downer ending in a fantasy movie - I don't feel like it's true to the spirit of Tolkien. With the exceptions of Aldarion and Erendis and The Children of Hurin, all of his substantial stories end with both loss and hope. A&E doesn't have the latter.

I don't see Aldarion and Erendis as being completely hopeless. After all, if not for Aldarion, first as the King's Heir, giving legitimacy and respectability to the Venturers and their Middle-earth voyages, and establishing the first non-Eldarin ports, would it have been possible for the much later defeat of Sauron by Tar-Minastir?

Not to say, though, that such an eventual fruit would be thought 'positive' enough for modern film. I can more easily see a chastened Aldarion renouncing his 'toxic masculinity' and foregoing his seafaring, then putting forth Erendis as a much wiser, 'caring' person for Ruling Queen, and then dedicating his life to shepherding and tree-planting.

[Mithadan]

If I recall Zaentz acquired the rights to The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings only. This included characters, locations, etc, as well as materials in the appendices. Zaentz does not have the rights to the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales or HoME and cannot use stories or characters found therein (except to the extent that they are mentioned in LoTR and The Hobbit).

Theoretically, the company can create new works based upon locations, characters and story fragments from the works it has rights to. This is apparently what is happening with the planned series.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

It's true that films with miserable endings have their place, but - even assuming you could get audiences to go for a downer ending in a fantasy movie - I don't feel like it's true to the spirit of Tolkien. With the exceptions of Aldarion and Erendis and The Children of Hurin, all of his substantial stories end with both loss and hope. A&E doesn't have the latter.

Of these two, I think COH has a better possibility of making a good movie. It has a faster-moving storyline. If A&E is to be made into a movie, they'd need to twist some politics plots to keep interest. But the beauty of this movie could be an ending of flashes of scenes, or just text, briefly stating the fates of all the subsequent generations.

The problem with COH is that so many different places and people are involved, and it's hard to introduce all their backgrounds and motivations in a single movie. But if the intended audience is one that is familiar with Beleriand, or certain details are glossed over, it could work out. Really though, I think COH could make a good play. With Glaurung never actually shown, but implied to be there by actors' reactions - like the Giants in many versions of Into The Woods. It's definitely dramatic enough for a play, but maybe a tad long - so perhaps some of Turin's adventures would be cut. I would go see a play like that.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

The trouble with Aldarion and Erendis is that it's so unrelentingly bleak.

To contemporary audiences that seems like a positive trait.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

The fatal problem with A&E is that it's a relationship story, not an action-adventure at all: a Hallmark Channel costume drama. No battles, no swordfights, no dragons, no magic spells, no shield-surfing or avalanche-climbing. Just people standing around talking about messed-up marriages, convoluted politics, and a made-up religion/cosmology nobody in the audience understands. Kramer vs. Kramer in Numenorean costumes isn't exactly box-office boffo.