Celebrimbor

[ArcusCalion]

I agree with Findegil. As much as I like the story of Olorin, the logical problem is there. In addition, due to the vast difference in timing between the two versions (one in the Second and the other in the Third Ages), the narrative cannot be presented as we would like: side by side as two divergent legends. They would be separated by a great deal of text, and this would be difficult to edit without the appearance of contradiction. I have incorporated the second version into the Second Age draft at the very beginning of the chapter Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn, with some minor editing.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by ArcusCalion

I agree with Findegil. As much as I like the story of Olorin, the logical problem is there.

I don't understand, doesn't the Olórin version take away the problem Findegil noted?

Findegil wrote: The story of him visiting Galadriel and giving the stone to here, does not fit the chronology: All the time when Gandalf is around Galadriel was able to use her Ring. So for what would she neede the Elessar?

The "Elessar returned" version states that: "And on a time Olórin came to Galadriel, who dwelt now under the trees of Greenwood the Great; and they had long speech together."

But when's one a time? If the Maia arrives in the Second Age here, we have roughly 1,590 years before the Three are made, and around year 1600, Celebrimbor perceives the designs of Sauron, leaving the Three arguably unsafe to employ until Isildur takes the One in year 3,441.

Or do these windows not work due to some chronology already decided upon?

[gondowe]

In one of the texts of the Istari is said
"Then Manwë asked, where was Olórin ? And Olórin, who was clad in grey, and having just entered from a journey.... Manwë replied that he wished Olórin to go as the third messenger to Middle-earth (and it is remarked in parentheses that "Olórin was a lover of the Eldar that remained,..."
This is ( for me ) a good reason to think that the Olorin of the Elessar text could be an Olorin of the pre One Ring Second Age.
But for me there is a problem, And is that Galadriel never dwelt in Greenwood the Great unless we edit it in some way saying that Lorien or Lindorinand was part of it in those days.

Anyway I prefer the version of Enerdhil.

And anyway I gave the Elessar story as a separate text, as a General note at the end of the Third TftE Volume (Fourth volume of The Thain Book), and I conserved both stories maintaining the ambiguous
"and of this two things are said, though which is true only those Wise could say who now are gone."
The only part I inserted in the narrative was the first part:

There was in Gondolin a jewel-smith named Enerdhil, ... This gem Enerdhil gave to Idril the King's daughter, and she wore it upon her breast..."

And

"And before Idril set sail she said to Eärendil ..... So it was that the Elessar passed away, when Eärendil returned no more to Middle-earth"

into the Narn-en-El text.

Greetings

[Galin]

Originally Posted by gondowe

(...) But for me there is a problem, And is that Galadriel never dwelt in Greenwood the Great unless we edit it in some way saying that Lorien or Lindorinand was part of it in those days.

Indeed both versions of the Elessar tale at least appear to have Galadriel in Greenwood, and the first edition puts Celeborn there (although granted, this detail was omitted in the second edition).

According to the text Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn, Lorinand is said to have extended into the forest on both sides of the Great River, including the region which afterwards was Dol Guldur.

Still, in general I agree there might be some problems tying together a chronology of Galadriel's movements in the Second Age. Author-published text gives little enough to go on, and in my personal opinion, Concerning Galariel and Celeborn is a dubious text with respect to a few matters.

I'm not sure what the folks engaged in this project have already decided upon regarding Galadriel's movements, and I must admit, I haven't tried to squeeze Greenwood into the picture...

... or my picture anyway!

[gondowe]

Originally Posted by Galin

According to the text Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn, Lorinand is said to have extended into the forest on both sides of the Great River, including the region which afterwards was Dol Guldur.

Yes is true, what I mean is that it must be necesary to make clear that the wood was part of a whole. If you know what I mean.

Greetings

[Galin]

O, I C

"oh, I see"

[Findegil]

The project has not yet discussed Galadriels and Celeborns movements in the Second and Third Age (or even at the end of the First Age). But that is one of the important points we have to do soon as it seems.

Respectfully
Findegil