Female Nazgûl???

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Let's not engage in the attempted retconning of a mid-20th century book by a very conservative old Edwardian. Tolkien's writing was androcentric, unless there was an especially good reason to make a character a female. To his mind, male was the default gender, and there's no sense trying to make him think like a 21st-century person, because he wasn't. Slashfic notwithstanding, he didn't include any gay characters either.

It's not likely at all that Tolkien was privately thinking "I'll make two of the Nazgul women but not say anything about it."

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Let's not engage in the attempted retconning of a mid-20th century book by a very conservative old Edwardian...

But why not? That's the fun part!

More seriously: there are two ways of looking at Middle-earth. One is 'what did Tolkien write/intend?', and under that view, absolutely: there were no female Nazgûl, no sex out of wedlock, no pillage by the Armies of Good, no lesbian dwarves (those ones who just never wanted to marry were simply... good friends), no weird Hobbit cults which worshipped legendary Elvish figures as gods, no colonies of Orcs cut off for thousands of years on Tol Fuin and Himling building their own pocket civilisation. These aren't things Tolkien thought of, and in fact are things he would directly have opposed.

The other way of looking at it is as a world in its own right: a world that is under the authority of the One, but which is just as messy, incoherent, and contradictory as our own. That's a world which has room for all of the above, because its people are not (except when stated or inferred) bound by Tolkien's morality and prejudices.

To claim that there were no gay people in the entire history of Middle-earth because Tolkien wouldn't approve is to deny the rich fabric of human(/elven/dwarven) nature. And to claim that there could not be any female Ringwraiths because Tolkien defaulted to male characters is to deprive ourselves not only of interesting storytelling possibilities and new ways of thinking about things - but also of some fun theorising time. ^_^ And who wants that?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

To which I would simply respond: it's Tolkien's universe, not ours. One which includes neither Shai-hulud from Dune, Nazgul tombs, dying Arwens nor isolated Orc societies on Tol Fuin.

[Galin]

My Tolkien Universe doesn't even include Tol Fuin (or Himling).

So all yer orcs there... are drownded

But don't get me wrong, I'm still a fun person.

[Nerwen]

Well, this just becomes another iteration of the canonicity debate, doesn't it?

Really I see nothing wrong with theories, however outlandish, as long as you don't start insisting they be accepted as the "real" version- which people have been known to do, of course. But that's not the impression I'm getting in this case.

[Inziladun]

I don't know if anyone brought this up already, but there is a quote from the Unfinished Tales section The Hunt For the Ring which states:

At length [Sauron] resolved that no others would serve him in this case but his mightiest servants, the Ringwraiths, who had no will but his own, each being utterly subservient to the ring that had enslaved him.

Definitive? Not really, but I do think that if one of the Nazgûl had been female, that would have been a notable enough occurrence to have stated someplace.

Anyway, Sauron himself would likely have been frightened of a Nazgûl-ess. Women are quite enigmatic and worrisome enough without being invisible!

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I don't know if anyone brought this up already, but there is a quote from the Unfinished Tales section The Hunt For the Ring which states:

Ah, but as the Ringwraiths are being spoken of collectively here, "him" could have its secondary meaning of "a person etc of unspecified sex"- technically there's no way to tell in that context.

Definitive? Not really, but I do think that if one of the Nazgûl had been female, that would have been a notable enough occurrence to have stated someplace.

Anyway, Sauron himself would likely have been frightened of a Nazgûl-ess. Women are quite enigmatic and worrisome enough without being invisible!

Invisible? What makes you think Nazgûl-esses are invisible? How would fan-fic authors be able to write paragraphs describing their exquisitely Gothic loveliness if they were invisible? I ask you.

By the way, do half-Nazgûl count?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

To which I would simply respond: it's Tolkien's universe, not ours. One which includes neither Shai-hulud from Dune, Nazgul tombs, dying Arwens nor isolated Orc societies on Tol Fuin.

Does it include toilets? I don't recall Tolkien mentioning them, so I assume people in Middle-earth don't possess bowels? And I guess all grain is imported from Gondor or the Shire (since nowhere else has farms mentioned), and the orcs of Moria have no need of food (their food source isn't mentioned, so must not exist)... and if we want to take this to its logical extreme, there are no women in the Elvenking's Halls, since none are ever mentioned as being there!

Tongue obviously firmly in cheek for the above (and please don't take offence - my forceful tone isn't reflected by a forcefulness of spirit), but the point is that any reading of Tolkien has to include gap-filling. To take it to truly ludicrous extremes: did Barliman Butterbur serve drinks to anyone except on the days Gandalf or the hobbits visited him? Obviously so - but it's not specifically described, so to assume he's actually doing his job is an inference. An ironclad logical one, but an inference all the same.

That said... no, Tolkien didn't put female Ringwraiths into Middle-earth.

(Or toilets.)

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Anyway, Sauron himself would likely have been frightened of a Nazgûl-ess. Women are quite enigmatic and worrisome enough without being invisible!

This is actually a much more valid argument than you'd think. Remember that Sauron has had contact with a female sorcerer - name of Luthien. She killed his entire army of werewolves, took him prisoner, tore down his tower, and sent him home in disgrace. Sure, she had help, but if Sauron saw her success as a function of her sex, he might well think twice before even potentially creating a second Tinuviel.

(On the other hand... to have one on his side...)