6 Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalië - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Aiwendil · 11-11-2017, 08:29 PM

I'm holding off on commenting on any of this until I can give my full attention to this chapter. However, I will say I'm somewhat disinclined to use 'Aman' here. It strikes me much more as commentary on the story than as something to be used in a narrative.

But I will look at this in detail when we turn our attention back to this chapter.

Findegil · 11-12-2017, 05:47 AM

That was what I expacted. My message was not to promot you to this, but to make clear that I think more opinions are needed.

Respectfully
Findegil

ArcusCalion · 12-03-2017, 08:34 PM

We had discussed the question of the word "Máyar" and I have just found this in Words, Phrases, and Passages:

Quote:

√AYA-N treat with awe/reverence. Cf. especially ainur "the Holy Ones" (plural of *ainu < adjective aina 'revered').
This ainur only appears in plural since after the Creation all those known were máyar. Máyar includes Valar and their lesser kin, but not those who either did not take part in the Great Theme, or else did not enter into Eä. So The Ainur is used only of the Spirits before Creation, or of those unnamed who are not concerned with it.

In this same essay the term "Maiar" is used later on, so it would seem that these terms might have been contemporary. However, this document is composed in several stages of composition, and the occurrence of the word "Maiar" is in the later stage than the occurrence of "Máyar." In addition, further on we have:

Quote:

√MAY- excellent, admirable. [Cf. máya/maia, name of the Kin of the Valar, but especially of those of lesser power than the 9 great rulers.

This alone would settle the debate that the two are interchangeable, but even after this the entry was edited to say

Quote:

Cf. Maiar

I think this proves it.

Sidenote: There is this sentence in the entry on "Calacirya"

Quote:

Many jewels were embedded in the rocks of its walls.

Do we want this in the chapter? or is it too minor a detail to include?

Findegil · 12-04-2017, 11:30 PM

Nice find!

I at least for an inclusion od that detail.

Respectfully
Findegil

ArcusCalion · 12-05-2017, 01:13 AM

How about:

Quote:

EPE-EX-13{In Valinor they first contrived .... were enriched.}<QS rewritten And in all crafts of hand they delighted also; .... and the halls of the {Gods}[Valar] in Valinor were enriched. EPE-EX-13.5 <Words, Phrases, and Passages Many jewels were [also] embedded in the rocks of {its}the wall [of the Calacirya].>>

gondowe · 12-05-2017, 09:58 AM

Quote:
Many jewels were embedded in the rocks of its walls.

I have now a dude with this sentence. Possibly is because my understanding/interpretation of English.
Refers that the jewels were embedded by someone after the making of the Calacirya or refers that the jewels were embedded say, geologically, and can see after the making of the pass? I always thought that was the second option.
Greetings

ArcusCalion · 12-05-2017, 10:05 AM

Gems are not mentioned until this paragraph, and it is said that they were first discovered by the Noldor by digging in the earth. If they were naturally embedded in the walls of the Calacirya, they would have discovered them immediately. Therefore they must be manually embedded.

As far as the English goes, the sentence itself does not specify. It could mean they were there, or that they were put there.

11-11-2017, 08:29 PM	#1
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	I'm holding off on commenting on any of this until I can give my full attention to this chapter. However, I will say I'm somewhat disinclined to use 'Aman' here. It strikes me much more as commentary on the story than as something to be used in a narrative. But I will look at this in detail when we turn our attention back to this chapter.

11-12-2017, 05:47 AM	#2
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,721	That was what I expacted. My message was not to promot you to this, but to make clear that I think more opinions are needed. Respectfully Findegil

12-04-2017, 11:30 PM	#4
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,721	Nice find! I at least for an inclusion od that detail. Respectfully Findegil

12-05-2017, 09:58 AM	#6
gondowe Wight Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 248	Quote: Many jewels were embedded in the rocks of its walls. I have now a dude with this sentence. Possibly is because my understanding/interpretation of English. Refers that the jewels were embedded by someone after the making of the Calacirya or refers that the jewels were embedded say, geologically, and can see after the making of the pass? I always thought that was the second option. Greetings

12-05-2017, 10:05 AM	#7
ArcusCalion Quentingolmo Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 525	Gems are not mentioned until this paragraph, and it is said that they were first discovered by the Noldor by digging in the earth. If they were naturally embedded in the walls of the Calacirya, they would have discovered them immediately. Therefore they must be manually embedded. As far as the English goes, the sentence itself does not specify. It could mean they were there, or that they were put there.