Chapter 1: Of the Beginning of Time - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

ArcusCalion · 10-26-2017, 11:40 AM

I like this combination Aiwendil!

I think I am with Fin on the Silpion issue, as I see no real reason to change it here.

It seems a shame to lose the names, and I see no reason that they are not valid. Kulullin contains the elements kulu- and -lin, which mean "gold" and "a musical sound" respectively. Culu is a valid word for gold (the metal) in later Quenya, and is an element in one of the names of Laurelin (Culumalda, although culuma might mean orange, the element culu- is clearly related to gold.) Lin is a perfectly valid word in later Quenya. If the name needs updating at all, it would simply be to change the double "l" to a single one, but even that seems unnecessary to me. Silindrin is said to mean "Moon Cauldron" by Christopher Tolkien, and the element sil- is the "Qenya" term for moon, which in Quenya is "Isil." however, the verb silë in Quenya means "to shine," and could be used in a compound. -ndrin is less clear. There is no clear etymology for it, but using CT's analysis, it could mean cauldron. In "Qenya" we have the word tambë for cauldron, with a Gnomish cognate as tambos. However, this word does not reappear in Quenya or Sindarin, and so may not be valid. Thus, -ndrin could be easily thought to be an element denoting "cauldron" in Quenya, although the phonology is not up to date. Similar to the way Gwarestrin -> Gwarestirin in our version, we could do Silindrin -> Silindirin. As it is though, these names are not too difficult to salvage, and it would be a shame to lose them.

In regards to the dating, I say ambiguity is our friend.

About the placement of the descriptions of the dwellings of the Valar, I would say that there it would be somewhat awkward to describe them so late, but I do see the advantage of the Light and the trees in the descriptions. I have no preference either way, but if the fuller versions of the descriptions are to be used, it might be best to put them at the end, so we can use the parts that reference the Trees.

10-26-2017, 11:40 AM	#34
ArcusCalion Quentingolmo Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 525	I like this combination Aiwendil! I think I am with Fin on the Silpion issue, as I see no real reason to change it here. It seems a shame to lose the names, and I see no reason that they are not valid. Kulullin contains the elements kulu- and -lin, which mean "gold" and "a musical sound" respectively. Culu is a valid word for gold (the metal) in later Quenya, and is an element in one of the names of Laurelin (Culumalda, although culuma might mean orange, the element culu- is clearly related to gold.) Lin is a perfectly valid word in later Quenya. If the name needs updating at all, it would simply be to change the double "l" to a single one, but even that seems unnecessary to me. Silindrin is said to mean "Moon Cauldron" by Christopher Tolkien, and the element sil- is the "Qenya" term for moon, which in Quenya is "Isil." however, the verb silë in Quenya means "to shine," and could be used in a compound. -ndrin is less clear. There is no clear etymology for it, but using CT's analysis, it could mean cauldron. In "Qenya" we have the word tambë for cauldron, with a Gnomish cognate as tambos. However, this word does not reappear in Quenya or Sindarin, and so may not be valid. Thus, -ndrin could be easily thought to be an element denoting "cauldron" in Quenya, although the phonology is not up to date. Similar to the way Gwarestrin -> Gwarestirin in our version, we could do Silindrin -> Silindirin. As it is though, these names are not too difficult to salvage, and it would be a shame to lose them. In regards to the dating, I say ambiguity is our friend. About the placement of the descriptions of the dwellings of the Valar, I would say that there it would be somewhat awkward to describe them so late, but I do see the advantage of the Light and the trees in the descriptions. I have no preference either way, but if the fuller versions of the descriptions are to be used, it might be best to put them at the end, so we can use the parts that reference the Trees. Last edited by ArcusCalion; 10-26-2017 at 11:58 AM.