Wormtongue a cannibal?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

And a nice little means for Saruman to assert his superiority in a twisted way. Wormtongue was already debased in having that as his new name. Leave it to Saruman to find a way to further knock him down.

Actually, now I begin to wonder how much my interpretation was influenced by the Russian translation of his name, Rot-mouth (and Saruman calls him Rot at the end). But in any case I still imagine him feeding off inedible quality food.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Granted, he'd been ordered apparently to stay out of sight and do his dirty work at night, but surely there was some sort of wretched food he could subsist on. There were the Shirrif-houses, and local Hobbit-holes and houses would have had gardens he could raid.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

And in this wonderful thread, SpM and I have it out, where I and a few others again put on a defense attorney hat and try to get Gollum off baby-eating charges.

The parallel to Gollum really is quite striking.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

The parallel to Gollum really is quite striking.

The degree of desire is not comparable, since the One Ring had a power to cause obsession beyond one's ability to resist, but it seems greed and a wanting for something he did not have (Éowyn) could indeed have put Wormtongue into a similar state as Gollum.
Bending all one's will toward "possession" has a degrading effect, regardless of the initial motives behind the want.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

The degree of desire is not comparable, since the One Ring had a power to cause obsession beyond one's ability to resist, but it seems greed and a wanting for something he did not have (Éowyn) could indeed have put Wormtongue into a similar state as Gollum.
Bending all one's will toward "possession" has a degrading effect, regardless of the initial motives behind the want.

Quite right.

I primarily meant in the behavioral and physical outcome sense. Their behaviors in their degraded states had a resemblance.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I primarily meant in the behavioral and physical outcome sense. Their behaviors in their degraded states had a resemblance.

Hm. Both Wormtongue and Gollum had had occasion to be around Orcs, and possibly observe their culture. Cannibalism seems to have been something they practiced. Curiously, it's presented as something of an insult, as in the quarrel between Saruman's Uruk-hai and the Orcs of Mordor:

'Swine is it? How do you folk like being called swine by the muck-rakers of a dirty little wizard? It's orc-flesh they eat, I'll warrant'

TTT The Uruk-hai

or, a threat to induce compliance, as with Shagrat to Snaga at Cirith Ungol:

'You must go, or I'll eat you.'

ROTK The Tower of Cirith Ungol

Perhaps hearing of, or maybe even watching Orcs eat one one another could have helped inure both to such an act, if it was down to either that or starving.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Hm. Both Wormtongue and Gollum had had occasion to be around Orcs, and possibly observe their culture. Cannibalism seems to have been something they practiced.

I wonder how often that happened.

Was it something used as a punishment?

[HerenIstarion]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Actually, now I begin to wonder how much my interpretation was influenced by the Russian translation of his name, Rot-mouth (and Saruman calls him Rot at the end). But in any case I still imagine him feeding off inedible quality food.

On a veeery veeery offtopic trend, my apologies, - so your first was Muraviev-Kistiakovsky translation, then? I remember Гнилоуст was theirs

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by HerenIstarion

On a veeery veeery offtopic trend, my apologies, - so your first was Muraviev-Kistiakovsky translation, then? I remember Гнилоуст was theirs

Yes, it was.

Out of curiosity, were there other variations of the name in other translations (if you know of any)? I've seen two variants on Glorfindel (Gorislav and Vseslavur), and the "C" names are wonky (Celeborn, Cirdan, Celebrian...). But I haven't come across a second Wormtongue.

[HerenIstarion]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Yes, it was.

Out of curiosity, were there other variations of the name in other translations (if you know of any)? I've seen two variants on Glorfindel (Gorislav and Vseslavur), and the "C" names are wonky (Celeborn, Cirdan, Celebrian...). But I haven't come across a second Wormtongue.

Yep, he's Червослов in Григорьева-Грушецкий version (Wormword for English-speaking readers of this thread gone away from its purpose, mea culpa )

And he's Червеуст (Wormlips/wormmouth) in Каменкевич-Каррик version

(You see, I've been somewhat obsessed with it as a teenager (not yet speaking English), laying my hands on any translation I could get hold of)