Bombadil’s Green Girdle

[Balfrog]

Morthoron

It's probably worthwhile you taking a look or re-look at Tolkien's essay: Sir Gawain and The Green Knight, and his book with E.V. Gordon. It would also be useful for you to peruse H&S Chronology and understand how often Tolkien taught the subject. Once digested, you'll understand that a balanced view would have been something like:

'Wow – Tolkien really had a great deal of expertise on this medieval text. There's a good chance a 'green girdle' would have meant a great deal to him.'

You're argument that it's just two words puts a fallacious spin on the matter: So 'One Ring' or an 'Otter's whiskers' would have meant nothing to him either, eh?

Slinking into a corner and being unable to admit the above is disappointing – yet not unexpected. As usual you side-step most of my responses. Sure you can keep kidding yourself … randomly chosen color, associated to a random piece of clothing, all inserted into an existing text in a moment of amnesia, huh. However if you were truly honest with yourself - using your own words:

“The more realistic, less specious consideration is”

Ms. Seth's viewpoint. Funny how you only want to use that argument when it suits you!


I simply use common sense

On this matter – I'm still waiting!

Does Bombadil have a girdle of invincibility? No. As Glorfindel noted, "I think that in the end, if all else is conquered, Bombadil will fall, Last as he was First, and then Night will come." Tolkien never implied Bombadil was invincible, that is not the character's raison d'être.

Oh dear – you've failed to perceive magical items can have their limitations. Within the only specified bounds we know:

“For whoever goes girdled with this green riband, while he keeps it well clasped closely about him, there is none so hardy under heaven that to hew him were able; for he could not be killed by any cunning of hand.”
Tolkien's translation of SGGK

even wearing a green girdle Tom may be slain. One way which does not involve 'hands' could be through song. Perhaps Sauron's songs of power might be more powerful than Tom's. And there again – I'm sure Sauron would have had evil creatures at his command capable of slaying fleshly folk that needn't employ, or indeed didn't have, 'hands'.

Again, you've missed the symbolism of the green girdle in "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" completely (not surprising, considering the Snark hunts you engage in).

Regardless of what your own perception is of the symbolic significance of the 'green girdle' in Sir Gawain & The Green Knight, let's be clear it is not the only one in the world. Or do you deem yourself to be an expert on SGGK? Sorry – I don't agree with 'it's my way or the highway' approach.

Does Bombadil need a girdle of invincibility? No.

Nonsense – how do you know what he does or does not need? Has M-e been free of danger throughout Tom's existence in Arda? Answer yes or no? Bet you won't be able to bring yourself to say no.

Upon whom exactly does he wish to exert his invincibility, since a girdle of invincibility implies a martial stance that Bombadil in no way has an interest in. He is not bellicose; in fact, he allows Old Man Willow his space, and does not even attack the Barrow Wights in a conventional sense.

More nonsense – in the space of a few days he deals with OMW and obliterates the Wight. How do you know what evil threats TB has had to deal with over the Ages. It's not as if there have been no wars on his borders.

Does Bombadil wear a girdle of invincibility? Oh, of course, right along with his yellow boots of uber trajectory and his ever-expanding blue jacket of excessive caloric-intake. Because Goldberry sews nuclear-powered clothes.

Adds nothing. You've yet to realize how much involvement Tolkien had with classic fairy tale. Try reading and digesting Tolkien On Fairy-stories by Flieger and Anderson, and then the light bulb might go on.

Does the original author ever have Gawain actually use the green girdle of invincibility in battle against the Green Knight?

This statement makes no sense. There was no battle. There was a beheading match agreed to in an oral contract. Are you questioning why the author didn't include a battle? You might try asking him, but you won't get an answer.

Why would the scholar Tolkien equate a badge of shame to Bombadil, who neither cares for invincibility nor wants dominion over others?

Yes, yes – we all know the 'badge of shame' thing. But what was the girdle's significance before it came to Gawain? Did Lady Bertilak wear it as a 'badge of shame'? And who had it before Lady Bertilak? What would have been more important to Tolkien – what the green girdle started out as or ended up as? Neither you or I can say for sure. So my suggestion is keep an open mind.

And Morthoron – please keep your objections coming. I look forward to opening your mind up to other vistas, and correcting you - always.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

While I am very much taken with the idea of Tom Bombadil using an ultra-powerful magical item simply to hold up his trousers, I can see some problems with identifying his belt with the girdle of Bertilak.

Firstly there is the question of description. The girdle that the lady of Hautdesert bestows on Gawain is made of silk, embroidered with gold:

Gered hit watʒ with grene silk and with golde schaped,
Noʒt bot arounde brayden, beten with fyngreʒ
(Tolkien & Gordon, ll. 1832-3)

Fashioned it was of green silk, and with gold finished,
though only braided round about, embroidered by hand
(Translation by JRRT)

Although Tolkien's poem says little about Tom's belt beyond its colour, the green trousers that he wears with it are made of leather. Tom's sartorial choices are unconventional, but his otherwise homely clothes would seem all the more outlandish for the addition of a gold-edged silk belt, particularly as pendants are mentioned in Gawain's exchange with Bertilak at the Green Chapel. It is also possible to read "Green were his girdle and his breeches all of leather" to mean not only that both Tom's trousers and his belt are green, but also that they are both made of leather. I note that Tolkien's poem makes no mention of Tom's belt being woven with gold.

More significant is that the article suggests that the girdle originally came from Goldberry. The description of Tom's clothes in the first stanza includes his swan-wing feather because one of the outcomes of the story is his acquisition of the blue feather that he wears in his hat in LR. Therefore we can presume that this description is intended as a portrait of its protagonist before the events of the poem. Tom's apparent first meeting with Goldberry is described in the third stanza, and their encounter is not one much conducive to gift-giving.

Is Tom invulnerable because of a magic belt? I doubt it, and I think that a more interesting question is whether or not Gawain is invulnerable wearing his, since the entire episode of his being offered it, accepting the gift and using it to protect himself against Bertilak's strokes has been planned in advance by Bertilak, his lady and Morgan Le Fay (the crone who accompanies the lady of the castle and is unflatteringly described in ll. 948-69). Bertilak's stroke cuts Gawain's neck, and Bertilak confidently announces that he could have done Gawain more harm had his failure been greater. We only have the word of Bertilak's lady that the belt is one that grants invulnerability against cuts from weapons, and she has become ever more desperate in her temptations throughout her last encounter with Gawain, and could simply be lying. I find the hunting scenes very significant in their juxtaposition with Gawain's temptations, and the wily fox Reynard is the last victim of Bertilak's wildlife holocaust, dying possibly the most gruesome death.
Given the strong Christian message of Gawain and the Green Knight and the Pearl manuscript in general, it is possible that faith alone would have been a greater protection against the Green Knight's axe than a fancy belt.

Added to these problems, we have the far simpler explanation offered by Morthoron that green completes a palate of colours that represent the natural world of which Tom Bombadil is the spirit, and that girdle simply works better in the poem's structure than does its humble synonym belt. If we apply Occam's razor (another historical Bill, incidentally), that symbolism wins out. I should add the further note that there is a certain hubris implicit in assuming that one has spotted something in Tolkien that nobody has ever pointed out before, given the number of medievalists who have applied themselves to Tolkien's sources. Gawain is a pretty obvious place to start looking, given JRRT's history with the poem and its dialect, and Tom Shippey at least can probably quote the original line for line. It might not be well known to the general public, but in the field of medieval English studies, Gawain is a staple piece.

[Balfrog]

Squatter

“It is also possible to read "Green were his girdle and his breeches all of leather" to mean not only that both Tom's trousers and his belt are green, but also that they are both made of leather.”

Within the confines of the English language – I find such an interpretation as just about impossible. One might argue the leather breeches were green - but I can't see your suggestion at all. In any case, I'm glad you mentioned Occam's razor because a simple and direct interpretation of the verse – meaning the girdle is green and the breeches are leather – would be aligned with Occam's principle best.

As to the sequence of events in the 1962 The Adventures of Tom Bombadil poem – please read and take note of Tolkien's remarks in the preface of the associated booklet. Sequences of events cannot be determined precisely when the poetry has been made up from various legends and from different hobbit authors especially when transmitted orally.


Talking further about Occam's razor if you want to try and use it to pit a 'Nature' inspired green girdle versus a 'Mythological' green girdle – I believe the latter wins hands down. Thus I wholly disagree with:

“If we apply Occam's razor … symbolism wins out.”

Tolkien only ever wrote about one green girdle – and that's the 'default' mythological SGGK variety. There are no others ever documented that were specifically green and nature-inspired. 'O. r.' requires us to take the simplest and most straightforward path. Because no records of a nature version girdle exist – the default SGGK belt emerges as the front-runner.

We must not forget that 'green' as a color had a special meaning to Tolkien beyond 'nature':

“green was a fairy colour”
-SGGK, Tolkien & E.V. Gordon

I have no doubt green as a nature color was also important to Tolkien. So in this case, both possibilities are evenly matched in applying 'O.r'.

In this study, one should also weigh the reason behind the insertion of a new line in the 1962 The Adventures of Tom Bombadil poem. For a nature inspired green girdle – there are none given – but for a mythological one, Tolkien admits the new Bombadil poetry has specifically been formulated with linkage to our world. Given such an admission there is every reason to believe the poem's green girdle was yet another example. So again - advantage SGGK green girdle.

I could go further and throw in other factors to weigh – such as Tolkien's degree of pedantry, the state of his mental faculties at the time of composing the new verse, opportunities for correction, etc. etc. - but these would not help the 'nature' inspired green girdle case at all.

You are welcome to disagree – but overall the SGGK girdle wins out!

As far as the SGGK poem itself is concerned and whether the girdle is truly magical – I do not want to get into that debate. Whether we like it or not we are forced to take the unknown poet's words as transmitted by Lady Bertilak to be truthful. Again – as I communicated to Morthoron – Tolkien never called Lady Bertilak a liar.

When it comes to Goldberry's role in all of this – there is yet more evidence to come. Ms. Seth has has slowly built a case for a deep and hidden insertion of fairy tale and localized mythology within TLotR text. Gradually more and more information is coming out – that yes is entirely new. I know there will come a time when she pulls the threads together and explains how this all meshes. In the meantime she has just released how she believes an element of the fairy tale Childe Rowland was subtly incorporated into the Barrow-downs episode.