Werewolf CXII - Dueling Wizards III - The Living Thread

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Need to really re-read the last page or so, but I also am becoming uncomfortable with Sally. Something about her style seems off, though it's difficult to articulate exactly.

Now to try and take a look at Nog since he's come up a lot in discussion today. I'd still personally lean toward voting Legate for now, though.

[Lalaith]

1. Why,why, WHY did Nogs throw in what looked like a 'wasted' vote for Eonwe after deadline when his own neck was on the line along with that of Lottie and Boro?
2. Is there any possible way Eonwe and Nogs could be on the same side?
3. Why do both Nerwen and Eomer trust Eonwe' innocence so much?
4. Why are Sally and Shasta so damn quiet?
5. Wouldn't Brinn have been a great candidate for wolf conversion?
6. Am I being a real airhead by vaguely trusting Nerwen and Legate to be innocents?
7. How has Boro survived this long?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I'm back! And very suspicious of everyone.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I'm back! And very suspicious of everyone.

Word.

(And I was hoping to go to sleep early finally this Day... but we were watching GoT with a buch of people - Legate and Lommy icluded.)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Now we're at the business end of the game, where everyone appears to have acted suspiciously, I'm becoming more and more inclined to vote based on who I would have picked were I the EW. Not very scientific, but there you go.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I get the meta reasoning that Eönwë might have been chosen as a wolf, but without some better indication, I think it's really odd to try to lynch someone who has arguably been the single most productive player.

I agree that suspecting someone on the sole grounds that they could make a good wolf conversion candidate is not a good enough reason to want to lynch them. My reason for voting for Eonwe yesterDay was because I found his Inzil vote suspicious combined with his extended focus on the Dead Thread.

I think it's also good to keep in mind that just because someone is the most productive player, it doesn't make them more innocent. I've found in many WW games that the most productive players turned out to be wolves.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I think it's also good to keep in mind that just because someone is the most productive player, it doesn't make them more innocent. I've found in many WW games that the most productive players turned out to be wolves.

Exactly. And no, I'm not wishing to go into the debate of "what it means to be productive" - but to say I'd use a different term here with Eönwe. We'll probably all understand in a roundabout way well enough what we are talking here.

What makes me worried about Nerwen (among some other things) is that she uses the fact that someone discusses a lot of some general or strategic issues as a sign of being a goodie with Eönwe and as a sign of being a baddie with me. And she also says I'm suspicious because I talk about other things than suspicions & voting near the DL, which actually isn't the case - but which is the case most obviously with Eönwe.

So arguments seem to be to her only tools to help clear Eönwe and to cast shadow on me - whatever the logic of her defences / accusations or the truthfulness of them is. We innocents need to actually try find the direction they're pointing at - we do not know who it's okay to lynch and who isn't. The evil on the other hand can always just try and see what kind of argument s/he could use in any given circumstance to further her/his own evil agenda.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

You're just saying that, Brinniel, because you would obviously have been chosen by every one of us by now.

Anyway, we have to try and second-guess our enemy.

Just look at the list of The Living:

Nerwen
Boromir88
Shastanis Althreduin
satansaloser2005
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Eönwë
Nogrod
Brinniel

That is what I would call 'loudmouth-heavy'; it's only being balanced somewhat by Shasta & Sally being quieter than normal. Add the lynchees to this: Inzil fits in nicely; and Loslote certainly got stuck right in.

There's one or two quieter types in there. What I need to consider is: how safe is the quiet wolf in this place?

[Brinniel]

Nogrod, I don't think you have a very valid excuse for voting late. After all, you were around a lot yesterDay and if you were truly unsure of who to vote, you could've spent more time thinking about other villagers rather than place so much attention on the Dead Thread and other distracting subjects. I mean really, those scenario posts might've been hilarious early Day One, but in the final hours of Day 3, I just found them to be a headache and waste of time getting through while trying to catch up on so many posts.

The problem with Nogrod is that I do find his behavior suspicious, but then I wonder if maybe he really is just an innocent allowing himself to get muddled up with the complexities of the game. If he is innocent, he makes to be very easy lynch candidate for the baddies.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Also finally back here and want to vote soon and sleep soon.

Even though I am still suspicious of Nog, his last post makes me waver again, because some of it sounds very genuine. At the same time Boro's again rather re-kindled my suspicion of him. I mean, that talk about "I am not even close to evening up the score", what kind of a talk is that? Who cares about retaliation, but why would you justify your vote by saying "you voted for me this many times, so I have to do the same"? Again, what absolutely puzzles me about Boro is that this behavior does not make any sense. Like not even for a Wolf. But for whom then? I mean if a Cobbler existed, I would be fine. But if the circumstances in this game are either that you are innocent or a Wolf or EW, then after eliminating the basic possibilities that at least I don't think you would act this way if you had an important good role, then its more logical to assume you have a bad role.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I'm not going to deny my early intentionally trying to be suspicious so I can have a good, relaxing time with the dead. Going to blame someone who spends most of his days with a cubic ton of pressuring responsibilities, just wanting to be silly and fun for a while, try to take it easy? The sudden shift is I have a conscience and early on if I'm going to be random, possibly destructive (although I'm not sure how? I'm not the one who's tried to undermine communicating with the dead thread) then it would only be to myself. As more folks drop like flies, if I continued to be self-destructive I would be ultimately harming the GW efforts...and that's not something even silly me wants to do. I'm going to whine and complain how I never die in these games, but it is what it is.

Well if you put it that way, that isn't the issue, I'd perfectly understand that. However...

Originally Posted by Boro

You should have to admit yourself, Legate, the switch I've done was really stinkin' obvious. Not that I wouldn't be trying to play mind games as a wolf, but the confession you say that pinged your radar doesn't make sense if I were a wolf. First I'm a crazy sacrificial wolf, just trying to be disruptive...and suddenly I get turned into a wolf a 2nd time and decide I don't want to be the sacrificial wolf?

Well if you had been turned, you wouldn't have much of a choice, right? I don't know, I was just puzzled from the start by your behavior (but ok, yes, we've been through it), but I remember how you tend to play (or at least tended to play; it's true it has been some time and styles can change) when innocent, and neither of these behaviors simply fit that. I am used to inquisitive Boro poking people, sometimes even to the point where it becomes visible if they bend or break, but this was just a completely different game than what I am used to from you. The "suicidal tendencies" looked as if you were being played by Nilpaurion Felagund or something (but ok, you've explained that, or at least claim that). But your behavior simply goes over my head here. And yes, part of me has been thinking that for a long time that I should have probably given up on that. But another part of me is that well, if there is someone who is acting clearly fishy - in clearest sense of the word - it was you, so getting you off the hook just because I don't know what to think about it is not really an answer.

Agh. Gotta think.

EDIT: x-ed with Nog, Lal, Eo, Brinniel and some...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

1. Why,why, WHY did Nogs throw in what looked like a 'wasted' vote for Eonwe after deadline when his own neck was on the line along with that of Lottie and Boro?
2. Is there any possible way Eonwe and Nogs could be on the same side?
3. Why do both Nerwen and Eomer trust Eonwe' innocence so much?
4. Why are Sally and Shasta so damn quiet?
5. Wouldn't Brinn have been a great candidate for wolf conversion?
6. Am I being a real airhead by vaguely trusting Nerwen and Legate to be innocents?
7. How has Boro survived this long?

I'm quiet cause I'm sick.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

1. Why,why, WHY did Nogs throw in what looked like a 'wasted' vote for Eonwe after deadline when his own neck was on the line along with that of Lottie and Boro?

I was trying to make it in time but was just late (waiting for that 30 second rule, like I told you). I did consider voting Lottie but it kind of felt cowardish because all I had on her was that I suspected her, had the feeling she was on the evil side - but I do most often suspect her so that isn't much to go for. Therefore I decided to stick to my real suspicions and see what happens as it wasn't exactly clear who were yet to vote and whom the Dead might empower.

2. Is there any possible way Eonwe and Nogs could be on the same side?

Of course there is - even if that would be a sad state of affairs looking at the mutual suspicion.

3. Why do both Nerwen and Eomer trust Eonwe' innocence so much?

There is at least one simple answer - although the question should probably be put more precisely: "Why do both Nerwen and Eomer say they trust Eönwe's innocence so much?"

4. Why are Sally and Shasta so damn quiet?

I see Shasta already answering. Sally then, could be busy in RL? That's always an option. But it might make her a good target to convert into a wolf as well.

5. Wouldn't Brinn have been a great candidate for wolf conversion?

Probably even better than Sally. Mith would have been even better so it's kind of odd she died last Night. Maybe some of those strange things going on?

6. Am I being a real airhead by vaguely trusting Nerwen and Legate to be innocents?

With the former? Yes. With the latter? I don't know. I don't get an evil feeling from him just the normalish to-and-fro - but with the same breath I must say his early "point" toDay against Boro was quite odd - I mean he'd have jumped on that kind of a suggestion by someone else himself.

7. How has Boro survived this long?

There have been "better" candidates to lynch?

Originally Posted by Eomer

I'm becoming more and more inclined to vote based on who I would have picked were I the EW. Not very scientific, but there you go.

Not a bad strategy. It is at least a POV worth looking things from.

PS. quite funny that I have two votes - one from someone who speculates on different things happening here interpreted through the premise that the wolves have the upper hand in the Dead Thread, and by one who makes a special show how the wolves fill the Living Thread...

[Lalaith]

I've been putting the pieces of the jigsaw together in different ways and here's a quartet of evil that might fit together: Eomer, Eonwe, Shasta and Boro.

When I make Nogs a baddie, fewer pieces fit.

What is depressing is that even if Lottie was evil the EW could have made another wolf last night instead.
I feel very worried about our prospects, innocents.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I've been putting the pieces of the jigsaw together in different ways and here's a quartet of evil that might fit together: Eomer, Eonwe, Shasta and Boro.

Unless Boro was the first pick by the EW (possible but not probable - looking at Boro's behaviour in the end of D1?), it would have been pretty daring from the EW to pick him. Could Boro be the EW? Well his D1 behaviour would have been even more daring in that case.

Originally Posted by Eomer

There's one or two quieter types in there. What I need to consider is: how safe is the quiet wolf in this place?

Looks like pretty safe indeed.

Looking at it from the other direction: whom the EW should not have picked aka. who are those people you'd lose as lynchees more probably than not quite early in the game? It's like looking at the people who are now Dead (whichever way they died) Inzil, Lottie, Lommy - they tend to get lynched quite often, quite early. Same actually fits me - and my predicament doesn't look that easy right now either.

Which is kind of a scary thought - if Zil and Lottie were both innocents (too risky for the EW to pick) - we have then lynched only innocents (and if Eönwe and Nerwen have it their way with me you lose third innocent). Well, maybe those Nightly oddities meant our gifteds are doing it better than we are.

[Lalaith]

Unless Boro was the first pick by the EW (possible but not probable - looking at Boro's behaviour in the end of D1?),

well he could have been a wolf trying to get into the Dead Thread early to mess it up...

[Lalaith]

That is what I would call 'loudmouth-heavy';

Well you'd think...we've barely had over a page of posting today though....