Werewolf CXII - Dueling Wizards III - The Living Thread

[Nogrod]

One thing that still bothers me is Kuru's answer to my question - or the non-answer to it. Or to be more precise, whether it is something one should pay heed to or just shrug and walk away from.

So the question was, whether the EW could play so as to NOT turn someone on the Night1 before the game started, so that we'd play D1 without a single Wolf around, and then turn someone into a Wolf the next Night(2) and also using that Wolf the very same Night to Nightkill someone (aka. Morsul)?

Here's once more his answer (starting with an answer to another question), bolding mine.

Originally Posted by KuruLord

While "everything" is assumed to have happened during a NIGHT phase, this does also implicitly create an order in which things occur. For example, Ranger Pick effectively has to come first in order for the skill to be used at all, then Evil actions, and so on and so forth.

And I'm afraid that is as much of an answer as I can give to Nog's question too.

The answer to that question is baked into the geography of the game.

I know it may be frustrating and seem like I don't understand the question, but I could not possibly answer that particular question. It is part of the game. The most definitive statement I can make is that the game is still going on right now. The Party has not won. Everyone can make of that what they will.

~*~

Originally Posted by Pervinca

Do I have to give a reason for my vote?

It would be appreciated.

[Nogrod]

EDIT: Sorry, didn't make any intro here on what this is all about... Sorry. So this is on Kuru's (non)answer just a few more lines...



The "the Party has not won" made me think first that there was some major positive thing for the village going on - but then after some thought realized that there aren't that many plausible chances for that to be true.

But what looks like it is said there is, that it might have been possible that we had no Wolf on D1 - which would kind of negate all my work on the voting on D1.

Emphasizing the order in which things take place to make events happen looks quite like he is saying that like conjuring up a wolf happens first and then there is the act that the creatures do.

Or it could be read the other way - if these summonings come the last.

Or is he just toying with us and laughing to his dwarven beard whilst seeing us speculating over sich issues?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The "the Party has not won" made me think first that there was some major positive thing for the village going on - but then after some thought realized that there aren't that many plausible chances for that to be true.

But what looks like it is said there is, that it might have been possible that we had no Wolf on D1 - which would kind of negate all my work on the voting on D1.

Emphasizing the order in which things take place to make events happen looks quite like he is saying that like conjuring up a wolf happens first and then there is the act that the creatures do.

Or it could be read the other way - if these summonings come the last.

Or is he just toying with us and laughing to his dwarven beard whilst seeing us speculating over sich issues?

I think you're obsessing too much over this. It could mean anything.

Edit: x'd since Nog.

[Nogrod]

I don't see the argument that Eönwe has "changed" from D1.

But I do suspect him for a couple of reasons.

His actions late on D1 - he was strongly for no-lynch and was present at least ten minutes before the DL but stood back and just watched things roll the last ten minutes when most of the votes came like in reality he couldn't care less. Had he the best of the village in mind and a conviction that a no lynch is the best option he would have said something - or tried to use hiss own vote reach a draw, or anything? It looks fake then.

He has quite consistently tried to look helpful ironing out a rigid plan to negate the possibility of the Dead Thread's influence on the game - well okay, that was opiniated - but the fact that he has been busy to look very helpful while not committing to any suspicions or real help (finding the baddies and as such creating people who might feel bad about you and might vote for you) looks a bit suspicious.

[Brinniel]

I am still pondering about the Dead Thread as I have no familiarity with it from previous games (at least that I can recall). I do agree this is a discussion that should be saved for toMorrow as there is less than thirty minutes before deadline. It does make me wonder if a baddie would attempt to focus on discussing the Dead Thread toDay as a way to distract the village.

If a wolf was turned last Night, I agree that Eonwe would've been a good pick. Boro might've been another pick if the baddies thought his attempt to self-sacrifice made him look innocent. But I don't think these are valid reasons alone to vote for someone and neither look suspicious enough to me right now to vote for one.

The escalation between Nerwen and Inzil is interesting. Maybe it is just an innocent-on-innocent spat, but I find it concerning. More seem to find Inzil's reaction worrisome, but I'm more worried about Nerwen. I didn't really see his comment as a slip-up and she seems to be pulling this idea out of hat and letting the rest of the village run with it.

As for yesterDay's votes, I think it's likely that a baddie is hiding among the no-lynch advocates. Lottie is one that still stands out to me from that and there are others to look at too, though I haven't had the time to do so.

EDIT: X-ed with Nogrod

[Brinniel]

Nerwen would be my vote preference toDay, but I don't want to spread the votes too thin..

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Nerwen would be my vote preference toDay, but I don't want to spread the votes too thin..

There is already a vote for Nerwen.

I'm afraid, as to my vote, I'm going to have to still be a wild card again today.

Here we go with another exciting flurry of votes.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Boro

There is already a vote for Nerwen.

So there is. I must've missed that.

[Lalaith]

It's annoying, I know that my five main suspects can't possibly all be guilty, but I'm now too tired to go through all the permutations and patterns of who fits in with whom.

Nerwen/Eomer felt like a good fit to me earlier toDay - although that could just be because they were both around and chatting, Boro/Lottie has been mentioned by others and kind of makes sense - and Zil - well, I don't know. I would go with Nerwen again for the sake of consistency but she feels less guilty to me now - I quite like her defence of Eonwe, just now. I think I might go with Eomer instead.
I do suspect Boro quite strongly but I'm not going to vote for him because I suspect him of playing a bit of a scam which I will explain tomorrow if it's still relevant.

[Lalaith]

Ok then.
++Eomer

[satansaloser2005]

Not again, you guys....

[Kuruharan]

The deadline has come.

Please stop posting.

Narration will follow shortly.

EDIT: For mandatory vote purposes I will count Pervinca Took's vote since it won't lend itself to a controversial outcome.

But please do put the ++ in front of the votes.

EDIT EDIT: Also in tomorrow's introduction narration I will include a list of the people who are in danger of mandatory vote expulsion so they can make sure and vote.

[Kuruharan]

~~~~~Our Tale~~~~~

Now that it had been conclusively proven that Kuru was right about there being a murderer on the loose, there was nothing else for it but to set down to the hard work of finding out who it was.

If only there was a forensics lab in this canyon. Alas, there was not.

One of the guests, who seemed to have given up the will to live, just lay on the guillotine and shouted, “Nilpaurion Felagund!" over and over again, with occasional pauses to shout advice to his comrades.

The other guests thought this a mite odd…but didn’t really pay much attention to it.

They had other fish to fry!

Mostly each other...

Suddenly, out of nowhere there was a definite suspect! Of course it was him! There could be no doubt!

They threw the suicidal one off the guillotine and tossed their convict on it and pulled the lever.

CLUNK!

There! Surely that problem was solved and Kuru would come rescue them in the morning.

~~~~~~~

It is now NIGHT 3. Those with NIGHTly business will no doubt commence it.

The Ordos sleep now.

Living
Nerwen
Loslote
Boromir88
Shastanis Althreduin
satansaloser2005
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Thinlómien
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mithalwen
Eönwë
Nogrod
Pervinca Took
Brinniel

The Dead
Morsul the Dark
Inziladun

[Kuruharan]

~~~~~Our Tale~~~~~

The NIGHT passed swiftly.

Those who slept did so fitfully.

There was a pervasive sense that they were all on the edge of another, strange world that might reach out and touch them at any time.

The dawn came, as it always does.

The group around the guillotine was a bit smaller this time.

A hunt turned up the corpse of Thinlómien.

Oh dear. This is getting serious.

~~
It is now DAY 3. You may all post now.

After doing my review, it turns out Sally is the only one in danger of the chop if she does not vote today.

Living
Nerwen
Loslote
Boromir88
Shastanis Althreduin
satansaloser2005
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mithalwen
Eönwë
Nogrod
Pervinca Took
Brinniel

The Dead
Morsul the Dark
Inziladun
Thinlómien

[satansaloser2005]

Folks who instigated that temporary five (six?) way tie are in a lot of trouble....

Behold my unamused face. o_O

[Nerwen]

Just reading through previous Days and thought I'd comment on this-

Originally Posted by Nogrod

One thing that still bothers me is Kuru's answer to my question - or the non-answer to it. Or to be more precise, whether it is something one should pay heed to or just shrug and walk away from.

So the question was, whether the EW could play so as to NOT turn someone on the Night1 before the game started, so that we'd play D1 without a single Wolf around, and then turn someone into a Wolf the next Night(2) and also using that Wolf the very same Night to Nightkill someone (aka. Morsul)?

Here's once more his answer (starting with an answer to another question), bolding mine.

The enigmatic nature of this is troubling. However-

This would not be possible. The Evil Wizard couldn't create and then kill that wolf in the same NIGHT. If the Evil Wizard tried something like this the victim would go to the Dead Thread as an Ordo.

That wouldn't preclude killing that wolf on a subsequent NIGHT, but it wouldn't work to do it on the same NIGHT.

This, although Kuru misinterpreted what you were asking, seems to make it pretty clear that the new wolf doesn't assume the role until the Night is over. Which makes sense, given that-

Originally Posted by The Rules

The Ranger can protect players from being killed or turned during the NIGHT phase.

and

If the Good Wizard and Evil Wizard target the same person, nothing happens.

You see there is more than one way a conversion can fail, depending on what else happens during the Night, so I don't think it would make sense for the EW to be able to say, "Aha, I have just created my first minion- let the slaughter commence! Mwa-ha-ha!" The exception, perhaps, might be in the case that the EW took a complete shot in the dark and requested that Morsul be killed IF [Prospective Wolf #1] were to be turned successfully. Maybe the rules allow that and that's why Kuru wouldn't confirm that it 100% couldn't happen. But it seems far-fetched.
Edit:x'd with 2 Brinns.