Do you think there should have been a contrivance to pre-empt the Eagles question?

[Boromir88]

Gandalf does have a history with these particular eagles and their lord:

It seemed that Bilbo was not going to be eaten after all. The wizard and the eagle-lord appeared to know one another slightly, and even be on friendly terms. As a matter of fact Gandalf, who had often been in the mountains, had once rendered a service to the eagles and healed their lord from an arrow-wound.~Out of the Frying Pan Into the Fire

I'm not sure if it's ever cleared up that Gwaihir, in Lord of the Rings, is the 'eagle-lord' in The Hobbit. If we take "thrice pays for all" literally, then Gandalf is forgetting about being rescued by the eagles in The Hobbit. So, it could just be a common saying Gandalf picks up as Inziladun says.

But it is clear from The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, Gandalf has a friendly bond to these particular eagles who helped him out of some sticky situations. I also think it takes reading the book to understand the mutual respect between Gandalf and Gwaihir, and why the eagles aren't a Middle-earth taxi service.

Whether the movies need to explain this as an answer to the question "why didn't the eagles just fly Frodo to Mordor?" It's probably not necessary. But I do think they confuse the friendship between Gandalf and the eagles, by adding the "moth." It makes it seem like Gandalf can just summon eagle allies, whenever he wants, as long as there's a moth around. And that gives an impression, the eagles are Gandalf's taxis.

When being rescued off Orthanc, Gwaihir made clear that he was coming to bring news from Radagast, not "to bear a burden.":

"How far can you bear me?" I said to Gwaihir.
"Many leagues," said he, "but not to the ends of the earth. I was sent to bear tidings not burdens."~The Council of Elrond

Heeehee, the orcs are a lot like Ewoks. But this video goes with the idea of the shooting tower, or that there is a physical/military reason why Eagles can't fly into Mordor (which still doesn't explain why they couldn't have carried the Fellowship from Rivendell until near the borders of Mordor in a single day).~Galadriel55

I shared that in hopes that others thought it was funny too, not as an serious rebuttal to the eagle question.

But I suspect Boromir had the right of it...one does not simply walk into Mordor. And don't forget, that was the plan. They were going to try to sneak through the front gate. It took Frodo sparing Gollum, and Gollum to show them a secret path that Sauron didn't watch as closely. There would have been no meeting Gollum, and no one in the Fellowship would have known about that path, had the eagles dropped them off near Mordor.

[KamexKoopa]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

It makes it seem like Gandalf can just summon eagle allies, whenever he wants, as long as there's a moth around. And that gives an impression, the eagles are Gandalf's taxis.

When being rescued off Orthanc, Gwaihir made clear that he was coming to bring news from Radagast, not "to bear a burden.":

I think that in Unexpected Journey, we should have seen Radagast espy the fire from afar, and then send the Eagles to rescue Gandalf and co.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

But I suspect Boromir had the right of it...one does not simply walk into Mordor. And don't forget, that was the plan. They were going to try to sneak through the front gate. It took Frodo sparing Gollum, and Gollum to show them a secret path that Sauron didn't watch as closely. There would have been no meeting Gollum, and no one in the Fellowship would have known about that path, had the eagles dropped them off near Mordor.

Originally Posted by Marwhini

But a flock of Giant Eagles rushing about the sky is going to send up more than a few red flags from the "Bad Guys."

I went over this in my post above.

To use the Eagles would have immediately exposed the One Ring to both Saruman and Sauron, even if it was just bringing them closer to Mordor. It would not have been "in Secret" at all, but rather a giant Advertising Sign: "Here we are!!!"

Eagles can't "Sneak."

All it would do would be to reveal the plan.

MB

Indeed- note that the Fellowship would have also travelled faster on horseback- but instead they were the "Nine Walkers". Speed wasn't the priority.

[denethorthefirst]

It really surprises me how often this question crops up, because to me it makes absolutely no sense. As the others have already mentioned using the eagles isn't exactly subtle. Although eagles are able to fly very high, Sauron would still be able to spot them miles away, long before they would even reach the black gate, and take the appropriate counter-measures. And how would the Eagles "land" the ring? I mean they can't just drop it, what if they miss? So they have to either land or at least come very close to the mountain. Sauron will then be able to shoot them down, if he hasn't already brought them down with his fell beasts. And another thing: who's to say that the Eagles would even be able to mentally complete the task? It could very well be that the group of eagles tears itself apart well before reaching mount doom, fighting over the ring. And even if the Eagles reach the mountain, the ring-bearing eagle would at this point probably refuse to drop the ring, just like frodo and isildur were not able to harm the ring (and isildur was only in possession for several minutes, the eagle would be exposed to the ring for at least several days)!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by denethorthefirst

Although eagles are able to fly very high, Sauron would still be able to spot them miles away, long before they would even reach the black gate, and take the appropriate counter-measures. And how would the Eagles "land" the ring? I mean they can't just drop it, what if they miss? So they have to either land or at least come very close to the mountain. Sauron will then be able to shoot them down, if he hasn't already brought them down with his fell beasts. And another thing: who's to say that the Eagles would even be able to mentally complete the task? It could very well be that the group of eagles tears itself apart well before reaching mount doom, fighting over the ring. And even if the Eagles reach the mountain, the ring-bearing eagle would at this point probably refuse to drop the ring, just like frodo and isildur were not able to harm the ring (and isildur was only in possession for several minutes, the eagle would be exposed to the ring for at least several days)!

Good points. And the way I see it, having the Eagles, who were basically Manwë's 'eyes' in Middle-earth take such an active part in the War of the Ring would have been pretty much the same as sending the Ring over Sea. Elrond discounted that as an option, and I think the Eagles were off-limits for that kind of task as well. The Valar (Eru) had devised the means of accomplishing Sauron's fall with the sending of the Istari. The Eagles were on hand to aid those fighting Sauron, particularly, I think, the Istari, but sending them into Mordor to do the dirty work just wouldn't fly.

[Faramir Jones]

There has been some discussion about Gandalf's use of the phrase 'Thrice shall pay for all, if you are willing' to Gwaihir at the Battle of the Black Gate, in terms of the latter taking him and then going with other eagles to rescue Frodo and Sam at his request. The other two times were, I believe, when Gwaihir personally rescued Gandalf, when his life was at serious risk.

In terms of the previous two events, the first would be when the eagles rescued Bilbo, Gandalf and the dwarves, bringing them to their eyrie, and then taking them some distance to Beorn, to get ahead of the goblins and wargs. It's clearly stated that Gwaihir was the eagle who personally rescued Gandalf, when the latter was about to attack the goblins and wolves, but who would have died as a result. The second would be when Gwaihir rescued Gandalf from Celebdil, after the Battle of the Peak with the Balrog, when he had died and come back from the dead, but was obviously in a bad way. One could argue that Gandalf's life was not immediately at risk when he was rescued from Orthanc, although his ultimate fate would have been unpleasant, particularly if he had been handed over to Sauron. Also, the interventions of the eagles in the Battle of Five Armies and the Battle of the Black Gate were not intended to save Gandalf personally, or a small group of which he was a member.

What do people think?

[Boromir88]

What do people think?~Faramir Jones

I think Gandalf's rescued/carried by Gwaihir three times are all referring to the 3 times in The Lord of the Rings. There is a progression in their friendship each time Gwaihir has to carry Gandalf.

First, Orthanc, Gwaihir says "I was sent to bear tidings, not burdens."

Second, from Zirakzigil. Gwaihir (if I recall correctly, was sent by Galadriel) and remarks that Gandalf is light:

"Ever am I fated to be your burden, friend at need." I said.
"A burden you have been," he answered "but not so now. Light as a swan's feather in my claw you are. The sun shines through you..."~The White Rider

Then in the Field of Cormallen, Gandalf tells Gwaihir:

"You will not find me a burden much greated than when you bore me from Zirakzigil, where my old life burned away."
"I would bear you," answered Gwaihir, "whither you will, even were you made of stone."

So I think the "thrice pays for all" is just the three times in LOTR, because each rescue shows a progression in their friendship. Gandalf is first "a burden" that Gwaihir will carry for many leagues "but not to the ends of the earth." Second time, Gandalf is still a burden, but he's "as light as a swan's feather." Then the last time, Gwaihir says he will bear Gandalf wherever, even were he "made of stone." So, I guess that means Gwaihir in the Fellowship of the Ring would not have accepted carrying the ring-bearer to the borders/into Mordor. But ROTK Gwaihir would have...figures you even have to play the dance with eagles, when you want to get them to do anything for you.

[Marwhini]

Originally Posted by denethorthefirst

It really surprises me how often this question crops up, because to me it makes absolutely no sense. As the others have already mentioned using the eagles isn't exactly subtle. Although eagles are able to fly very high, Sauron would still be able to spot them miles away, long before they would even reach the black gate, and take the appropriate counter-measures. And how would the Eagles "land" the ring? I mean they can't just drop it, what if they miss? So they have to either land or at least come very close to the mountain. Sauron will then be able to shoot them down, if he hasn't already brought them down with his fell beasts. And another thing: who's to say that the Eagles would even be able to mentally complete the task? It could very well be that the group of eagles tears itself apart well before reaching mount doom, fighting over the ring. And even if the Eagles reach the mountain, the ring-bearing eagle would at this point probably refuse to drop the ring, just like frodo and isildur were not able to harm the ring (and isildur was only in possession for several minutes, the eagle would be exposed to the ring for at least several days)!

It isn't just a case of "landing."

The Sammath Naur is INSIDE Orodruin.

They have to land, and then squeeze into a hole where they would have to then drop the ring into the lava at the bottom of the Sammath Naur.

All Sauron would need to do would be to put a gate on it, or wall it up.

Why he didn't already is a question that needs to be answered. Arrogance? That seems to be the go-to for Sauron, but I think it likely another reason that isn't so simple of reductive.

But your point remains, only more complicated and worse than even you have described.

Although it is likely they would have send Frodo atop one of the Eagles, carrying the One Ring. That doesn't change the situation a great deal.

MB