Tolkien's political views - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Faramir Jones · 07-14-2016, 06:36 AM

Thanks for your reply, Marwhini.

I'd like to look at Lake-town. You spoke in your reply about the 'parody of "Democracy" in the Lake-town or Long Lake, which was very much a failure as a government'. I would say a few things in response. First, we don't have enough information about whether Lake-town is a democracy or not, due to not knowing who could vote. We can certainly say that it is a republic, with an electorate, which seems to resemble the maritime republic of Venice, although the Master has more power than the Doge would have later in the Middle Ages. Second, the failure was placed on the shoulders of the Master; but he was able to divert this by blaming the dwarves for stirring up Smaug, stopping the question of Bard replacing him as ruler. Third, the Master planned to rebuild Lake-town, something that had happened, according to Gandalf and Balin on a later visit, although there was a new Master, the old one coming to a bad end. It, the Kingdom under the Mountain, and the rebuilt Dale under the rule of 'King' Bard, were all rich and prosperous.

When he talked with Gloin in Rivendell decades later, in LotR, Frodo heard from him that King Brand, Bard's grandson, was 'a strong king, and his realm now reaches far south and east of Esgaroth [Lake-town]'. No indication was given there about whether Lake-town was still an independent state, or had become part of the Bardings' kingdom.

07-14-2016, 06:36 AM	#3
Faramir Jones Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lonely Isle Posts: 706	What happened to Lake-town? Thanks for your reply, Marwhini. I'd like to look at Lake-town. You spoke in your reply about the 'parody of "Democracy" in the Lake-town or Long Lake, which was very much a failure as a government'. I would say a few things in response. First, we don't have enough information about whether Lake-town is a democracy or not, due to not knowing who could vote. We can certainly say that it is a republic, with an electorate, which seems to resemble the maritime republic of Venice, although the Master has more power than the Doge would have later in the Middle Ages. Second, the failure was placed on the shoulders of the Master; but he was able to divert this by blaming the dwarves for stirring up Smaug, stopping the question of Bard replacing him as ruler. Third, the Master planned to rebuild Lake-town, something that had happened, according to Gandalf and Balin on a later visit, although there was a new Master, the old one coming to a bad end. It, the Kingdom under the Mountain, and the rebuilt Dale under the rule of 'King' Bard, were all rich and prosperous. When he talked with Gloin in Rivendell decades later, in LotR, Frodo heard from him that King Brand, Bard's grandson, was 'a strong king, and his realm now reaches far south and east of Esgaroth [Lake-town]'. No indication was given there about whether Lake-town was still an independent state, or had become part of the Bardings' kingdom.