Favourite minor character?

[Pitchwife]

I wouldn't say derived, Marhwini, maybe rather inspired, and not in such a way that you can always map ME peoples on real world civilisations 1:1. In some cases more than one real world ingredient goes into Tolkien's inventions, e.g. while the Rohirric language in the book is clearly Old English the real Angle-Saxons never had a cavalry, and Tolkien says in Appendix E of LotR that we shouldn't assume the material culture of Rohan to resemble that of the Angle-Saxons. The question you discuss here is interesting and would IMO certainly merit its own thread.

On topic, I find myself wondering about the characters in LotR that only have one or two lines - people like Ceorl, Hirgon, Ingold: what were their lives like, did they have families, how did those who survived the war fare in the Fourth Age?

Of the minor characters that were more developped I'd like to mention
- Beregond, an example of the common Men of Gondor at their finest,
- Ioreth, a realistic female character who is neither young nor beautiful nor powerful but thoroughly likable,
- Nellas, the elven girl who overcame her shyness to bear witness in Thingol's court for a man who had forgotten she even existed.

But I think my all-time favourite minor character has to be the old man who sat on the threshold of the Paths of the Dead and died after telling Brego and Baldor "The way is shut." That passage always gives me shivers.

[Marwhini]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I wouldn't say derived, Marhwini, maybe rather inspired, and not in such a way that you can always map ME peoples on real world civilisations 1:1. In some cases more than one real world ingredient goes into Tolkien's inventions, e.g. while the Rohirric language in the book is clearly Old English the real Angle-Saxons never had a cavalry, and Tolkien says in Appendix E of LotR that we shouldn't assume the material culture of Rohan to resemble that of the Angle-Saxons. The question you discuss here is interesting and would IMO certainly merit its own thread.

On topic, I find myself wondering about the characters in LotR that only have one or two lines - people like Ceorl, Hirgon, Ingold: what were their lives like, did they have families, how did those who survived the war fare in the Fourth Age?

Of the minor characters that were more developped I'd like to mention
- Beregond, an example of the common Men of Gondor at their finest,
- Ioreth, a realistic female character who is neither young nor beautiful nor powerful but thoroughly likable,
- Nellas, the elven girl who overcame her shyness to bear witness in Thingol's court for a man who had forgotten she even existed.

But I think my all-time favourite minor character has to be the old man who sat on the threshold of the Paths of the Dead and died after telling Brego and Baldor "The way is shut." That passage always gives me shivers.

I did not mean to suggest an absolute correspondence (and even said so).

But Beregond is an example of the minor Characters of Gondor that fit the model of those of the North I am interested in. Only Beregond applies to the "normal" Humans of the lands surrounding the White Mountains and Ithilien (What Tolkien originally called the "Hill Men."

He'd be a good one to have more background into his family, and society.

MB

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

But I think my all-time favourite minor character has to be the old man who sat on the threshold of the Paths of the Dead and died after telling Brego and Baldor "The way is shut." That passage always gives me shivers.

Hoho! That's a hard one to beat. Really great passage!

The thing about minor characters in the legendarium is that unless there's one that REALLY fascinates you for some reason, there are too many, even among favourite ones, to even properly recollect all of them. Between three-and-a-bit Ages and many countries, there are just too many to choose from. Personally, I can't say I have a favourite, but there are some whose passages I enjoy reading. Gilraen is one such. Also, Aerin from COH. From the men, I liked the messengers - Ceorl and Ohtar among others.

By the way, I don't think I've said a proper hello yet. Welcome to the Downs, Marhwini!

[Pitchwife]

Thanks for reminding me of my manners, G55. Welcome to the Downs, Marhwini! Help yourself to a skullful of cobwebs and condensed mist and enjoy beingd dead.

Looking at your list of marginalized Mannish peoples of the East and South I feel it's a pity that they were all relegated to the status of tools of the Enemy, it would have been interesting to learn more about their culture and history (although, to be fair, Professor Tolkien already gave us more than one man's share of worldbuilding, and to ask for more seems a bit greedy) - but on the bright side that leaves us so much freedom to invent stuff for fan fiction and RPGs.

I'd like to add the people of Dorwinion to your list, of whom we know little more than that they made very good wine and were for a while subjects of Gondor. They were probably related to the Woodmen of Rhovanion and the Northmen of Dale, but given the geographical position of their country it seems reasonable to assume that they had some admixture of Easterling blood (or at least that was the assumption I made when playing a Dorwinian character with a faux-Slavic accent in an RPG in days of yore ).

Aerin! Yes, Aerin was a bloody great character. Also Andróg, the outlaw in Túrin's gang, and Mîm the Dwarf (but he's not really minor, is he?) and of course Sador Labadal whom I forgot to mention up there although he's really one of my favourite minor characters in all of Tolkien. The Narn is full of interesting characters, isn't it?

[Mithadan]

Marhwini, if you want to change the spelling of your screen name, try reaching out to Barrow-Wight. Welcome to the Downs!

It's been a long while since I read it, but you might want to peek at Peoples of Middle Earth, HoME 12. In particular, the two chapters of Tolkien's brief attempt to write an LoTR sequel.

[Marwhini]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

Marhwini, if you want to change the spelling of your screen name, try reaching out to Barrow-Wight. Welcome to the Downs!

Thank you.... I will do that. In my haste I transposed two characters (in my own writing on the subject of the Northmen of Rhovanion, I have discovered that I do this about ½ the time I write the name "Marwhini"). And I have discovered a few others where I make similar mistakes (Thurwingethil being another, where I write "Thuringwethil").

And thank you for the welcome.

I have been a Tolkien fanatic for a very long time, and perhaps take his work too seriously (so seriously that I have begun to work out actual metaphysics that would give rise to physics, chemistry, and biology - etc. basically operationalized sciences - to account for the functioning of the different beings, creatures, plants, geography, etc. in Middle-earth that we take to be "supernatural" - Tolkien's commentary on them are that most were "natural" parts of Middle-earth). Thus my other post on "The Metaphysics" (and Ontology) "Of Middle-earth."

I understand that there is an actual Tolkien academic here, as well (Zigûr)? It would be interesting to get his take on these subjects.

It's been a long while since I read it, but you might want to peek at Peoples of Middle Earth, HoME 12. In particular, the two chapters of Tolkien's brief attempt to write an LoTR sequel.

I have the complete set of HoM-e (two sets in fact, the Hard-Bound, which I got as they were first released, starting back in the 1980s, and a soft-bound set, which I use for my primary research). And it is from it that I have begun a sort of emendation of the History of the Northmen, their relationship with Gondor and the Second Age Númenóreans.

I need to read it again, as I have not read the works concerning anything but the Silmarillion for some time (working on the Metaphysical Foundations for Ëa, Arda, and Middle-earth - as well as it's topology.... I have an idea for how to get a Flat Middle-earth that has gravity that works the same way as it does in our universe, yet which does not collapse into a sphere).

But directly to the issue of minor characters.... I can't think of a minor character I could call a "favorite" as ANY minor character chosen I could easily rattle off hundreds of things I would want to know about them.

They are all my "favorites" so to speak. Tolkien usually seems to have put as much thought into naming his minor characters as he did into his major characters, indicating that he did not really consider them to be "minor" as another author might.

MB

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Marwhini

And I have discovered a few others where I make similar mistakes (Thurwingethil being another, where I write "Thuringwethil").

The latter version, the one in quotation marks, is actually the correct one.

It shows in your posts that you've immersed yourself in Tolkien's work and word head over heels, and if you take them a little too seriously by your own account that's considered a virtue rather than a vice here. There used to be quite a few Tolkien scholars in this place, most of whom have become rather treeish since. The whole forum has become a lot quieter than it was when I joined, but so much the greater is the pleasure to see a new member with a real passion for Tolkien. Once again, welcome!

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Marwhini

I have been a Tolkien fanatic for a very long time, and perhaps take his work too seriously...

Well, fortunately we don't take Tolkien very seriously around here. No heated arguments. No nearly coming to fisticuffs over minor canonic issues. No calling anyone blithering idiots for the inanities they disembogue like a retched font of imbecility.

*Pauses*

Hey, why are you all looking at me like that?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Marwhini

Thank you.... I will do that. In my haste I transposed two characters (in my own writing on the subject of the Northmen of Rhovanion, I have discovered that I do this about ½ the time I write the name "Marwhini"). And I have discovered a few others where I make similar mistakes (Thurwingethil being another, where I write "Thuringwethil").

Hey, I do that all the time when I read things in a rush. Parks are full of conversations (conservations), and philosophy class had no casualty (causality). When I first joined, I misread a couple Downers' names because of the letter switching, and I still haven't fully erased them from my mind. In Tolkien, I spent the first couple years of reading LOTR thinking that Redhorn is called Baranzibar (vs Barazinbar), just to name one. I'm not dyslexic, but I also have a tendency to switch letters when I read fast, especially if there are unfamiliar words.

Back to the topic, I completely agree with you about the minor characters being as important in shaping the story and the world as the major ones. For one thing, if we didn't meet a few minor but representative individuals in every place the Fellowship passed, all these places wouldn't feel as real. It makes you aware that there are many people beyond the immediate story, and you relate to them and want to know more about their lives.

[Faramir Jones]

Marwhini, I'd like to add my voice to those others and say, 'Welcome to the Downs!'