The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-27-2016, 08:01 AM   #1
Zigûr
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Zigûr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
Zigûr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Zigûr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Húrin the Tall, Warden of the Keys.

Not a favourite character per se but an excellent example of Professor Tolkien's infinite capacity to furnish his narratives with realistic detail.

Also, regardless of what its actual responsibilities entailed, "Warden of the Keys" is an absolutely terrific title that fires the imagination.
__________________
"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir."
"On foot?" cried Éomer.
Zigûr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 08:54 AM   #2
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots

Pretty much all the dwarves.

Sadly, most of them rate as minor characters.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 02:24 PM   #3
Aaron
Haunting Spirit
 
Aaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: England
Posts: 96
Aaron has just left Hobbiton.
I have also found myself really intrigued by Bolg.
Especially as Tolkien, rather than painting the Orcs and Goblins as completely evil, noted how the dwarves matched them for cruelty during their war. Add to that the humiliating nature of his father's death - head on a pike with a coin-purse stuffed between the teeth - and you have a character who has something of a legitimate grievance against Thorin. Especially after the death of the Great Goblin.

When rereading The Hobbit, I must confess that a certain part of me roots for the Orcs, and isn't too sad when Bolg is eventually revenged on Thorin, given how he acted after assuming the Kingship.
__________________
Remember, stranger, passing by: As you are now, so once was I. As I am now, so you shall be. Prepare thyself to follow me.
Aaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 02:53 PM   #4
Inziladun
Gruesome Spectre
 
Inziladun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
I have also found myself really intrigued by Bolg.
Especially as Tolkien, rather than painting the Orcs and Goblins as completely evil, noted how the dwarves matched them for cruelty during their war. Add to that the humiliating nature of his father's death - head on a pike with a coin-purse stuffed between the teeth - and you have a character who has something of a legitimate grievance against Thorin. Especially after the death of the Great Goblin.
Not to co-opt the thread, but let's recall the reason the Dwarves dishonored the body of Azog that way. Thror (the recognized Heir of Durin), got a little crazy and wanted to tour the old family home in Moria. Hardly an invasion force, but he got his head lopped off for it, and his companion was insulted before having to watch the orcs hack Thror's body into pieces for birds to eat. I can't find any sympathy for Azog or Bolg.
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God.
Inziladun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2016, 06:14 AM   #5
Faramir Jones
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Faramir Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lonely Isle
Posts: 706
Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Silmaril Nerdanel the Wise

Among my favourites has to be Nerdanel the Wise, Noldorian Elf, sculptress, wife of Fëanor, and mother of seven. This is what we can read about her:

While still in early youth Fëanor wedded Nerdanel, a maiden of the Noldor; at which many wondered, for she was not among the fairest of her people. But she was strong, and free of mind, and filled with the desire of knowledge. In her youth she loved to wander far from the dwellings of the Noldor, either beside the long shores of the Sea or in the hills; and thus she and Fëanor had met and were companions in many journeys. Her father, Mathan, was a great smith, and among those of the Noldor most dear to the heart of Aulë. Of Mathan Nerdanel learned much of crafts that women of the Noldor seldom used: the making of things of metal and stone. She made images, some of the Valar in their forms visible, and many others of men and women of the Eldar, and these were so like that their friends, if they knew not her art, would speak to them; but many things she wrought also of her own thought in shapes strong and strange but beautiful.

She also was firm of will, but she was slower and more patient than Fëanor, desiring to understand minds rather than to master them. When in company with others she would often sit still listening to their words, and watching their gestures and the movement of their faces. Her mood she bequeathed in part to some of her sons, but not to all. Seven sons she bore to Fëanor, and it is not recorded in the histories of old that any others of the Eldar had so many children. With her wisdom at first she restrained Fëanor when the fire of his heart burned too hot; but his later deeds grieved her and they became estranged.
(The History of Middle-earth: 10. Morgoth’s Ring, (London: HarperCollins Publishers, 1994), pp. 272-3)

A most impressive person, I think.
Faramir Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2016, 11:32 PM   #6
IxnaY AintsaY
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 80
IxnaY AintsaY has just left Hobbiton.
It's hard to pick one. I guess I'd say Erendis right now, though I'm not sure she's truly minor, given that she's a central character in an important story. Other favorites, more obviously minor except the last...

Osse
Mablung of the Heavy Hand
Gwindor
Androg
Lobelia
Garm, the hound from Farmer Giles
Gorbag and Shagrat
Elfhelm
The Warden of the Houses of Healing
Dain Ironfoot
The young Aragorn II.
__________________
From without the World, though all things may be forethought in music or foreshown in vision from afar, to those who enter verily into Eä each in its time shall be met at unawares as something new and unforetold.
IxnaY AintsaY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2016, 10:28 PM   #7
Marwhini
Wight
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 144
Marwhini has just left Hobbiton.
There are Minor Characters in Tolkien's works???

Seriously, though.... I cannot think of many that I could narrow it down sufficiently.

Obviously... my Namesake (Marhwini), Marhari, and Vidugavia, Vidumani, Vidumavi, etc.

I just realized that I misspelled my own damned User Name... It should be Marhwini... I wonder if I can correct that. How embarrassing.

But the Northmen of Rhovanion (Foradan or Adanforodh) would be among those I would like further details regarding.

I am doing a sort of Fictional Historical account of the Wars of Gondor and the Wainriders in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries of the Third Age, beginning with the Wainriders invasion of Rhovanion in 1850, just after Narmacil II's ascension to the Throne from Telumehtar Umbardacil's death that year (the First Attacks were not until 1851, but they would have had to crossed into Rhovanion in late 1850).

And I would not be unhappy to have more information concerning both the Easterlings (of the First Age, and the Second Age or Third Age) of all types.

During the First Age, we have names for the 'Easterlings' taken directly from Viking names (or, more specifically, Jomsviking names).

The Anglo-Saxons of England even called the Viking Invaders of the 9th - 11th Centuries "Easterlings."

And even among the Norse and Scandinavians themselves the Jomsvikings (And Rus) were "Easterlings."

Later in the Second and Third Ages, the Easterlings seem to have characteristics similar to the Hunnic, Bulgar, Magyar, or other "Steppe Nomads" that invaded Christian Europe, not the least the Mongols, Timurids, or Khurasanis, Kwarismians.

And one of the characteristics of some of these groups is that they carries their houses (yurts) around on Great Huge Wagons (Wains).

And the Chinese of this period still used large Chariots, which Tolkien even mentions (which he would have known of) the Easterlings using. The Mongols even had such Chinese Troops in their armies at times.

Even though that is just speculation, it is curious that there are a small smattering of suggestions that Tolkien was thinking of these peoples when thinking of Easterlings...

And I would LOVE to have seen him take more consideration of these peoples.

The Southrons/Haradrim, and Khandirim would likewise have provided a rich tapestry of peoples to enrich Middle-earth.

Tolkien at least gives us a word for the people of Khand: Variags, which is another spelling of Varyag.

Some people have erroneously attributed this word to mean "Vikings."

What it IS is a description by the Byzantines of the Pagans they would hire as the Royal Guard: Varangians, whom were referred to also as "Varyags."

Varyag is a term to refer to the Kievan Rus employed by the Byzantines. They have an appearance that is similar to that Tolkien used for the people's of Khand (shortish Men, with broad shoulders, and dark beards similar to those of dwarves). But it can also apply to the peoples of the Magyars, Pechengs, and Khazar Khanate also employed by the Byzantines for the Varangian Guard.

That is an awful lot of speculation for just one word. But Tolkien did often use single words for just such indications.

As for the Haradrim, we have just the suggestion of the "Far-Haradrim," described as "Troll-Men." They are described as great Black-skinned Warriors, with Red Tongues. This sounds very much like the description of a Sub-Saharan Black African. The Sub-Saharan Africans lived in the "Far-South" of Africa (at least compared to the Mediterranean regions of Africa). And in "Near-Africa" we have living the Islamic Maghreb. Where during the Middle Ages (8th century - present) the Muslims conquered the Christian remnants of the Roman Empire.

In Middle-earth, Harad represents the regions of the world where Sauron corrupted the inhabitants, who previously had been ruled by the Númenóreans.

So... We have only slight evidence, but there does seem to be an eerily similar context to the histories involved.

And while Tolkien did not do "Allegory" (at least not intentionally), this isn't an allegorical comparison (it isn't making an outright moral statement). But it does seem to be somewhat derivative, rather than Allegorical.

But one does wonder, given that the languages Tolkien invented are themselves derived from real-world languages (Saxon, Gothic, Norse, Finnish, Hebrew, Hurrian, Akkadian, etc.) that perhaps the civilizations themselves were derived from real-world counterparts?

It would be interesting to explore the Dwarves in that context as well. But it would have been nicer if Tolkien had left something more explicit than linguistic clues, as helpful as those are.

MB
Marwhini is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:36 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.