Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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I agree. It is fun when a discussion opponent is too stubborn to admit he is wrong, but perhaps I should just not respond to William Cloud Hicklin at all.
Speak for yourself! I have conceded that Aelfwine appears in Laws and Customs. You, however, have yet to back away from your curious contention that the Annals and the "last three chapters" of the Later Silmarillion I postdate the publication of the Lord of the Rings, and this is not so.
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Although, as will be seen in
Part One of this book, a potentially destructive doubt had
emerged before my father finished work on The Lord of the
Rings, nonetheless in the years that immediately followed its
completion he embarked on an ambitious remaking and en-
largement of all the Matter of the Elder Days, without departure
from the essentials of the original structure.
The creative power and confidence of that time is unmistak-
able. In July 1949, writing to the publishers on the subject of a
sequel to Farmer Giles of Ham, he said that when he had finally
achieved The Lord of the Rings 'the released spring may do
something'; and in a letter to Stanley Unwin of February 1950,
when, as he said, that goal had been reached at last, he wrote:
'For me the chief thing is that I feel that the whole matter is now
"exorcized", and rides me no more. I can turn now to other
things...' It is very significant also, I believe, that at that time he
was deeply committed to the publication of The Silmarillion
and The Lord of the Rings 'in conjunction or in connexion' as a
single work, 'one long Saga of the Jewels and the Rings'.
But little of all the work begun at that time was completed.
The new Lay of Leithian, the new tale of Tuor and the Fall of
Gondolin, the Grey Annals (of Beleriand), the revision of the
Quenta Silmarillion, were all abandoned. I have little doubt that
despair of publication, at least in the form that he regarded as
essential, was the prime cause. The negotiations with Collins
to publish both works had collapsed.
Morgoth's Ring, vii
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The evidence is clear that when The Lord of the Rings was at last
completed my father returned with great energy to the legends of the
Elder Days. He was working on the new version of the Lay of Leithian
in 1950 (III.330); and he noted (V.294) that he had revised the Quenta
Silmarillion as far as the end of the tale of Beren and Luthien on
10 May 1951. The last page of the later Tale of Tuor, where the
manuscript is reduced to notes before finally breaking off (Unfinished
Tales p. 56), is written on a page from an engagement calendar
bearing the date September 1951, and the same calendar, with dates in
September, October, and November 1951, was used for riders to Tuor
and the Grey Annals (the last version of the Annals of Beleriand and a
close companion work to the Annals of Aman, the last version of the
Annals of Valinor).
Morgoth's Ring, 3
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Of the Annals of Aman, which I shall refer to throughout by the
abbreviation 'AAm', there is a good clear manuscript, with a fair
amount of correction in different 'layers'. Emendations belonging to
the time of composition, or soon after, were carefully made; and the
manuscript gives the impression of being a 'fair copy', a second text.
But while passages of drafting may have been lost, I very much doubt
that a complete 'first text' of the Annals existed (see further p. 121
note 17). The work undoubtedly belongs with the large development
and recasting of the Matter of the Elder Days that my father
undertook when The Lord of the Rings was finished (see p. 3), and it
stands in close relationship to the revision at that time of the
corresponding parts of the Quenta Silmarillion (V.204-43, referred to
throughout as QS), the text that had been abandoned at the end of
1937.
Morgoth's Ring, 47
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As with the Annals of Valinor (Aman) (p. 47), my father did not
begin revision of the Quenta Silmarillion as a new venture on blank
sheets, but took up again the original QS manuscript and the
typescript (entitled 'Eldanyare') derived from it (see V.199 - 201) and
covered them with corrections and expansions. As already seen (p. 3),
he noted that the revision had reached the end of the tale of Beren and
Luthien on 10 May 1951. The chapters were very differently treated,
some being much more developed than others and running to several
further texts.
An amanuensis typescript was then made, providing a reasonably
clear and uniform text from the now complicated and difficult
materials. This was made by the same person as made the typescript of
Ainulindale' D (p. 39) and seems to have been paginated continuously
on from it. I shall call this typescript 'LQ 1' (for 'Later Quenta 1', i.e.
'the first continuous text of the later Quenta Silmarillion'). It seems
virtually certain that it was made in 1951( - 2).
[...]
Finally [i.e. after the second (1958) series of amanuensis typescripts], my father turned to new narrative writing in the Matter of
the First Age before the Hiding of Valinor. The first chapter, Of the
Valar, much altered at this time, became separated off from the
Quenta Silmarillion proper under the title Valaquenta; while the sixth
chapter, Of the Silmarils and the Darkening of Valinor (numbered 4 in
QS, V.227), and a part of the seventh, Of the Flight of the Noldor
(numbered 5 in QS), were very greatly enlarged and gave rise to new
chapters with these titles:
Of Finwe and Miriel
Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor
Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor
Of the Darkening of Valinor
Of the Rape of the Silmarils
Of the Thieves' Quarrel
This new work exemplifies the 'remoulding' to which my father
looked forward in the [December 1957] letter to Rayner Unwin cited above. It repre-
sents (together with much other writing of a predominantly specula-
tive nature) a second phase in his later work on The Silmarillion. The
first phase included the new version of the Lay of Leithian, the later
Ainulindale, the Annals of Aman and the Grey Annals, the later Tale
of Tuor, and the first wave of revision of the Quenta Silmarillion,
much of this work left unfinished. The years 1953 - 5 saw the
preparation and publication of The Lord of the Rings; and there seems
reason to think that it was a good while yet before he turned again to
The Silmarillion, or at least to its earlier chapters.
Morgoth's Ring, 141-42
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After much experimentation the plan I have
followed is based on this consideration: seeing that a great deal of the
development can be ascribed to a relatively short time (the '1951
revision'), it seems best to take LQ 1, marking the end of that stage, as
the 'common text'. But while I print LQ 1 in full as it was typed (as far
as Chapter 5: Chapters 6 - 8 are differently treated), I also include in
the text the corrections and expansions made to it subsequently,
indicated as such. This gives at once a view of the state of the work in
both LQ 1, at the end of the 'first phase', and in LQ 2, at the beginning
of the 'second phase' some seven years later.
Morgoth's Ring, 143
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6 OF THE SILMARILS AND THE DARKENING
OF VALINOR.
The textual history of this chapter is entirely different from that of any
of the preceding ones. In the first stage of revision, only few and slight
changes were made to the QS manuscript (the old QS typescript text
having stopped at the end of the previous chapter), and these were
taken up into LQ 1. But after LQ 1 had been made, my father returned
to the old manuscript, and on the verso pages began a new version -
rather oddly, paginating it on from the end of the QS typescript, and
retaining the chapter number 4. This was clearly an element in the
revision of 1951.
[...]
A comparison will show that the new writing in LQ stands in close
relation to the corresponding part of AAm. New elements in LQ
appear also in AAm, such as Feanor's mother Miriel ($78, p. 92), the
devising of letters by Rumil and Feanor ($$80, 83), or the placing of
the making of the Silmarils after the release of Melkor (p. 104, $92).
There are constant similarities of wording and many actual identities
of phrase (notably in the encounter of Feanor with Melkor at
Formenos, LQ $54, AAm $102).
Can precedence be established between the two? It is scarcely
possible to demonstrate it one way or the other... I think in fact that the two
texts were closely contemporary.
Morgoth's Ring, 184, 191
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(II) THE SECOND PHASE. An acute problem of presentation arose in the treatment of the late
expanded version of Chapter 6 Of the Silmarils and the Darkening of
Valinor (see pp. 142, 184 ff.)... For this reason I have divided this part
of the book into two sections, and give here separately the late
narrative versions of Chapters 1, 6, and a part of 7 together with the
essay on the Eldar. To date these writings (and those given in Part
Four) with any real precision seems impossible on the evidence that I
know of, but such as there is points clearly in most cases to the late
1950s and not much later (for detailed discussion see p. 300).
Morgoth's Ring, 199
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Note on Dating.
It is convenient to collect here the evidence, such as it is, bearing on the
date of this late rewriting, and the texts associated with it.
I have mentioned that in a letter of December 1957 my father told
Rayner Unwin that it was his intention to 'get copies made of all
copyable material', with a view to 'remoulding' The Silmarillion; and I
have suggested that the amanuensis typescript LQ 2 of The Silmaril-
lion and that of the Annals of Aman, which were made on the same
typewriter and probably belong to the same time, may therefore be
tentatively ascribed to about 1958 (see pp. 141 - 2).
If this dating is accepted for the moment, then the annals inserted
into the manuscript of AAm concerning the death of Miriel, the
'Doom of Manwe concerning the espousals of the Eldar', and the
marriage of Finwe to Indis must have preceded 1958 or belong to that
year, since they appear in the typescript of AAm as typed (p. 101 notes
1 and 4, p. 127, $120); while the rider FM 1 to LQ concerning Finwe
and Miriel is certainly contemporary with the AAm insertions
(p. 205). The story of Finwe and Miriel in the manuscript (A) of Laws
and Customs among the Eldar certainly followed FM 1, but the two
texts were probably close in time (p. 233). It is thus notable that in the
letter written by my father in October 1958 (see pp. 267, 270) this
story and its implications were in the forefront of his mind.
The second text of the story of Finwe and Miriel (FM 2, p. 254)
intended for inclusion in The Silmarillion very probably preceded the
typescript (B) of Laws and Customs among the Eldar, since this latter
was typed on a new typewriter with a rather distinctive typeface. Also
typed on this machine were the Valaquenta and the texts of the late
rewriting of Chapter 6( - 7). The first letter of my father's that I know
of to be typed on the new typewriter is dated January 1959.
There is no actual proof of date in any of this, of course, but taken
together it points clearly, I think, to the late 1950s as the time when
the story of Finwe and Miriel arose and Laws and Customs among the
Eldar was written.
Morgoth's Ring, 300
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Given that you have cited some of these very passages, it is startling indeed that you have somehow managed to extract from them something other than what they plainly say: that the Annals and the 'first phase" revision of QS, together with much else, were produced in a great surge of creativity 1949-52; in fact the very reason that CT divided the chapter "The Later Quenta Silmarillion" into two 'phases' was precisely to separate this material from the later matter composed circa 1958 arising from the new conception of the House of Finwe.
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.
Last edited by William Cloud Hicklin; 11-12-2015 at 11:30 AM.
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