Beren and Lúthien - Changes needed

[Arvegil145]

Sorry, but I am a total idiot when it comes to poetry, so I want to remove myself from the poetry.

Another thing - it would be nice to introduce Angrist somehow into the tale.

And another thing, lol - wasn't it Curufin who was in lust with Lúthien in the Lay of Leithian? In the later writings it was Celegorm - in my version I simply changed Celegorm to Curufin and vice-versa.

[Findegil]

Angrist looks like an easy task:

Then Beren did Curufin release; [3340]
but took his horse and coat of mail,
and took his knifeBL-EX-10.6<QS36 , Agrist,>{there }gleaming pale,
hanging sheathless, wrought of steel.
No flesh could leeches ever heal {3055}
that point had pierced; for long ago [3345]
BL-EX-10.7<QS36 Telchar>{the dwarves} had made it, singing slow
enchantments, where {their}his hammer{s} fell
in Nogrod ringing like a bell.

About Curufin and Celegrom and who of the brethern proposed to marriage Lúthien: Curufin had already a son, so he could not propse the marriage, but I never have read the Lay in that seens. Could you give us a quotation were that is stated?

Respectfuly
Findegil

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by Findegil

About Curufin and Celegrom and who of the brethern proposed to marriage Lúthien: Curufin had already a son, so he could not propse the marriage, but I never have read the Lay in that seens. Could you give us a quotation were that is stated?

From the The War of the Jewels - The Grey Annals:

§181 Lúthien desired to follow Beren, but was held captive by her father, until she escaped and passed into the wild. There she was found by Celegorn and Curufin, and taken to Nargothrond. And evil entered into the hearts of the brethren, and they designed to seize the kingship of Nargothrond, and wed Lúthien to Celegorn and compel Thingol to alliance, and so make the sons of Fëanor the greatest House of the Noldor again.

[Findegil]

It is clear that Celegorm is the one in the end. But your comment looked like it is Curufin in the Lay, which I can not find their.

Respectfuly
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

Hey, just finished reading through everything, and I had only 1 question. Why were the two references to the mission of Boldog removed?

[Findegil]

Boldog's special mission was removed because it was never mentioned later. Aiwendils post 37 and me post 39 in this thread have some argument about that.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Elvellon]

Hey Findegil,

I was reading the working doc, and came across this bit:

A vault of topless trees it seemed, {995}
whose trunks of carven stone there stood
like towers of an enchanted wood [1240]
in {magic }fast[ craft] for ever bound,
bearing a roof whose branches wound
in endless tracery of green {1000}
lit by some leaf-emprisoned sheen
of moon and sun, and wrought of gems, [1245]
and each leaf hung on golden stems.

I couldn't find here, or in the private forum, any discussion about the change to line 1241 – unless I missed it, of course!

I don't think the new line "in fast craft for ever bound," works. For one, the Lay is in iambic tetrameter (not uniformly, but close), but this line is now short one syllable. For another, it throws off the stresses. And lastly, here "fast" doesn’t mean “rapid; quick”, but "firm; secure" – as in “fastened.” So, it’s not fast craft, it’s trunks fastened by craft.

Long story short, I think this would work better, both in preserving the stresses and the meaning:

A vault of topless trees it seemed,
whose trunks of carven stone there stood
like towers of an enchanted wood [1240]
{in magic} [in craft were] fast for ever bound,
bearing a roof whose branches wound
in endless tracery of green {1000}
lit by some leaf-emprisoned sheen
of moon and sun, and wrought of gems, [1245]
and each leaf hung on golden stems.

If you're against adding "were," then I think that at the very least, the line should be "in craft fast forever bound" to preserve the meaning of fast.

Edit:

BL-RG-08.5: I agree with Aiwendil that it would be nice to keep these lines. What about...

There countless torches fitfully
did start and twinkle{,} BL-RG-08.5 {as the Gnomes}[with a spark]
{were}[as Noldor] gathered {to their fading homes}[in the dark],
and thronged the long and winding stair
that led to the wide echoing square.