For all who study tolkien's languages!

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

Well, I was not talking about Vairë the Valie, I was talking about Vairë (elf), wife of Lindo, the keeper of The Cottage of Lost Play.

And as for else, I was seeking an advice of how to render those names from Qenya and Gnomish to Sindarin and Quenya.

But anyway, thanks for the input.

I think I covered this in my post on the parallel thread: those "rules", even if they exist, certainly haven't bgeen sorted out by anyone! But it might help to sort out which BoLT names were Eldarissa and which Noldorissa; I believe the former is the default, and the latter only those characters who are explicitly Gnomes.

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Vaire: I realize you were talking about the mistress of Mar Vanwa Tyalieva; my suggestion was that she was named for (or in honor of) the Valie.

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

I think I covered this in my post on the parallel thread: those "rules", even if they exist, certainly haven't bgeen sorted out by anyone! But it might help to sort out which BoLT names were Eldarissa and which Noldorissa; I believe the former is the default, and the latter only those characters who are explicitly Gnomes.

What I was talking about is to take the MEANING of a name in earlier conceptions of J.R.R.'s linguistic material - and THEN to form a Sindarin or Quenya (or Telerin!) translation of that meaning.

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Vaire: I realize you were talking about the mistress of Mar Vanwa Tyalieva; my suggestion was that she was named for (or in honor of) the Valie.

No problem. But the name Vairë in itself means "weaver", so, personally, I don't have any qualms with it.

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

I think I covered this in my post on the parallel thread: those "rules", even if they exist, certainly haven't bgeen sorted out by anyone! But it might help to sort out which BoLT names were Eldarissa and which Noldorissa; I believe the former is the default, and the latter only those characters who are explicitly Gnomes.

Are the names of Gereth, Evranin and Evromord still valid in Sindarin?

[jallanite]

What do you mean by valid?

If you mean are those names found in in any text following HoME 1 and 2, then they are not.

If you mean is there anything in the forms which phonetically prevents them from being Sindarin, well I don’t see anything except possibly the final -rd in Evromord. The combination rd does not, as far as I remember, appear elsewhere in Sindarin in final position (though -nd and -ng do.) But that may only mean that final -rd is a rarity in Sindarin, not that Sindarin categorically does not allow it to exist.

[Orphalesion]

Well int he later mythology it was said that the Elves did not name their children after the Valar, since they found it disrespectful or something, so I doubt a hypothetical, later mythology equivalent of Lindo's wife would be called Vaire after the Valar.

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by Orphalesion

Well int he later mythology it was said that the Elves did not name their children after the Valar, since they found it disrespectful or something, so I doubt a hypothetical, later mythology equivalent of Lindo's wife would be called Vaire after the Valar.

Yes. But the names of the Valar were given by the Elves - either as Quenya "equivalents" of their Valarin names, or, as in the case of Vairë (which simply means "weaver") to their main tasks to which they were assigned when they entered Eä - Vairë being the WEAVER of history.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Perhaps the broader question is, why the effort to graft the Cottage of Lost Play onto the later Legendarium at all? It appears Tolkien rejected the concept very early on together with the whole Eriol story. (Whether he finally rejected or retained Aelfwine is another can o' worms).

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Perhaps the broader question is, why the effort to graft the Cottage of Lost Play onto the later Legendarium at all? It appears Tolkien rejected the concept very early on together with the whole Eriol story. (Whether he finally rejected or retained Aelfwine is another can o' worms).

But if Aelfwine's story was kept, than it is desirable to keep the details of his stay at Eressëa - with all the beautiful details and descriptions of the Isle.