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Old 08-27-2015, 08:04 PM   #1
William Cloud Hicklin
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William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
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of course that's what "of profits means".... by some legal hairsplitting, Thorin could have interpreted the contract so that, regardless of the actual outcome of the quest, he did not have to, or plan to, give Bilbo one red farthing.
In other words, pretty much what New Line said to the Tolkien Estate. "Nope, no profits, just barely broke even at $3 billion."
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.
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Old 08-30-2015, 05:56 AM   #2
Faramir Jones
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Question Bilbo Baggins, Esq. v Thorin Rex?

If there was real legal hairsplitting going on from Thorin, as in our universe, in terms of him trying to give Bilbo nothing, the matter might have ended up in litigation, with a case such as Bilbo Baggins, Esq. v Thorin Rex, where the hobbit sues the new King under the Mountain. I can imagine it being very difficult for Thorin to claim that the vast treasure of his grandfather just vanished. Also, what about Bilbo being properly paid for rescuing Thorin and his people from the spiders and the Elvenkings cells?

To be fair to Thorin, he had already given Bilbo the first part of his promised reward, the mithril coat, which we later read was more valuable than the whole Shire and everything in it.
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Old 08-31-2015, 06:09 PM   #3
William Cloud Hicklin
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Bilbo would have a heck of a time finding a court of competent jurisdiction
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Old 09-03-2015, 01:27 AM   #4
Faramir Jones
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Boots The Shire or the KutM

The two jurisdictions that spring to mind are the Shire or the newly re-established Kingdom under the Mountain. The first, because the contract was made there; the second, because there could be an argument that the contract was governed by dwarf law.

There would also be the political background. Would anyone want to do business with a state whose ruler failed to keep his promise to properly reward the person who helped to restore it?
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Old 09-18-2015, 06:01 AM   #5
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A point about the legal discussion of the contract between Bilbo and Thorin: I think this contract is void (from the beginning) since there's no sovereign who could defend (and establish) the validity of the contract against both of the contracting parties. There's no legal instance which could force one (or both) of the parties to act according to the contractual clauses, or issue punishment otherwise.

Aside from the legal discussion, Bilbo's so called treachery is the thing I admire the most about his character in The Hobbit. In the end Bilbo doesn't follow a pack mentality, but does what he thinks is the right thing to do. To archive that he considered the means at hand.

I'd like to close my post with a quote that answers a similar accusation, but in a different context:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Silmarillion, Of the flight of the Noldor
But Olwë answered: 'We renounce no friendship. But it may be the part of a friend to rebuke a friend's folly.'
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