Cryptic Clues - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Pervinca Took · 07-07-2015, 06:27 AM

My second thought was Menelvagor (sp?) but the v and the g were too problematic.

Starry warrior, taking direction, distorted shine above.

Maybe Telumehtar - because I guess 'lume' means shine in some person and declension, and ... maybe all of the letters minus the R might mean shine or shine above in Elvish?

Mithalwen · 07-07-2015, 09:34 AM

It is Menelvagor and the why isn't that tricksy.

Pervinca Took · 07-07-2015, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

It is Menelvagor and the why isn't that tricksy.

Hang on, there's GLEAM in there. I spent quite a while trying to get from GLEAM to MAGLOR on this one, too. So - what letters are left?

NEVOR - oooooohhh - N(orth) plus OVER for above. I did look for overs and gleams, but clearly didn't look hard enough in Menelvagor.

Pervinca Took · 07-08-2015, 12:32 PM

He mingles twilight with doom, initially.

Mithalwen · 07-08-2015, 02:01 PM

Sorry, yes that is exactly the reasoning. I generally indicate if you need Elvish to solve the clue.

Ivriniel · 07-08-2015, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

He mingles twilight with doom, initially.

"HE" + (mingles) "doom" (Umbar), with the 'He' positioned first=Turumbar

Pervinca Took · 07-09-2015, 04:43 AM

Good try!

However, you are forgetting the 'twilight' element. Also, it doesn't say that 'he' mingles with doom, but that 'twilight' does. The straight part of the clue doesn't usually contribute letters to the cryptic part; in general it kind of stands apart from it, so to speak.

It kinds of betrays the hobbitlike side of me that Turambar often makes me think of Carambars - candy bars that were always in the confectionery and cake shops when my parents started taking us to France for holidays. Probably not the effect Tolkien was going for at all.

Ivriniel · 07-09-2015, 04:45 AM

I took twilight to mean 'twilight of Turumbar's people in the devastation of FA', as that part of the clue that was 'the real bit'.

Ivriniel · 07-09-2015, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

He mingles twilight with doom, initially.

hahaha I have a mindsight headache hahaha

okay - I'll try. I'll think out loud for you to explain why the headache hahahah

'hmm, is 'mingles' one of their 'special' words, not like 'annexe' - which I thought, meant 'join this bit with that bit' and it sort of 'did' in that the creature thing 'ET' WAS joined to the suffix - but they meant 'by territory' not by 'special word'.

Hmmm, now - what about 'mingles'. It could then, 'pet word to join' or it could be 'one of those elfy metaphor things, you know, like 'mingled light of the two trees' and - really - mingles is really one those 'middle earthy words' used everywhere. You know, like 'numenoreans mingling with lesser men' and 'teleri mingling with sindarins in beleriand' and then - the mingling of elf and man!

Ah, is this then a 'half-elfy' thing. Um - could be. So, now I want to say

Undomiel. She was that twilight, or even star thing, 'mingling' of night and light and of blood. A double match!!! hahahaha

Hmm, but Umbar really meant 'doom', but then again Undomiel did have 'the doom of Mortal men.

I'm sure my reasoning is all wrong.

Undomiel! hahahah

Ivriniel · 07-09-2015, 06:55 AM

Or wait

Undome means twighlight, and Umbar means doom in Elvish.

Quote:

He mingles twilight with doom, initially

He mingles 'undome' with 'umbar', initially.

Mingles (anagram?)......"He" why HE? What on earth of an anagram can I possibly get out of either (twilight) or Undome. And then 'with' doom. Is the anagram on just 'undome' or on 'undome' AND 'umbar' or on the non-elfy words?

EDIT:

Seriously, I haven't stopped laughing for 15 minutes..........It can't possibly be Undomiel hahahaha she doesn't anagram out of the clue.

Mithalwen · 07-09-2015, 08:22 AM

He, I think, merely indicates that the answer is a male character. You are right about mingles suggesting an anagram. Initially suggests well just the initial of doom is needed too - but whether it is D or of a synonym or a translation I don't know..

Galadriel55 · 07-09-2015, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivriniel

Undome means twighlight, and Umbar means doom in Elvish.

Isn't it Ambar? As in TurAMBAR, aka Master of Fate. Or Amarth, as in the Gondorian name for Mount Doom (Amon Amarth).

But anyways, Pervinca said it's not a translation. I was trying to work in some anagram of gloom or dusk, with the former being more promising, but the closest I got to matching the clue was getting Olog-hai, which is pretty obviously not the answer. I can't make Gollum fit either. But maybe this will help one of you guys.

07-07-2015, 06:27 AM	#1
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	My second thought was Menelvagor (sp?) but the v and the g were too problematic. Starry warrior, taking direction, distorted shine above. Maybe Telumehtar - because I guess 'lume' means shine in some person and declension, and ... maybe all of the letters minus the R might mean shine or shine above in Elvish? __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

07-07-2015, 09:34 AM	#2
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	It is Menelvagor and the why isn't that tricksy. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

07-08-2015, 12:32 PM	#4
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	Next one, then. He mingles twilight with doom, initially. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

07-08-2015, 02:01 PM	#5
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Sorry, yes that is exactly the reasoning. I generally indicate if you need Elvish to solve the clue. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

07-09-2015, 04:43 AM	#7
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	Good try! However, you are forgetting the 'twilight' element. Also, it doesn't say that 'he' mingles with doom, but that 'twilight' does. The straight part of the clue doesn't usually contribute letters to the cryptic part; in general it kind of stands apart from it, so to speak. It kinds of betrays the hobbitlike side of me that Turambar often makes me think of Carambars - candy bars that were always in the confectionery and cake shops when my parents started taking us to France for holidays. Probably not the effect Tolkien was going for at all. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

07-09-2015, 04:45 AM	#8
Ivriniel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 430	I took twilight to mean 'twilight of Turumbar's people in the devastation of FA', as that part of the clue that was 'the real bit'.

07-09-2015, 08:22 AM	#11
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	He, I think, merely indicates that the answer is a male character. You are right about mingles suggesting an anagram. Initially suggests well just the initial of doom is needed too - but whether it is D or of a synonym or a translation I don't know.. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace