Sad or Elated now the Movies are at an End? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Zigûr · 06-08-2015, 06:13 AM

Yes I think it's interesting that the way PJ sees it is that he adapted "The Lord of the Rings" to be the story of a hobbit, but didn't adapt "The Hobbit" to be the story of a hobbit.

As for superhero films, of the recent (2008 onwards) batch I've enjoyed the first Iron Man, Thor and Captain America films (particularly Captain America) but I'm a bit bored of them now. At the same time, I am something of a comic book reader, but I mostly like old Fantastic Four and Captain America comics, at least as far as Marvel is concerned. I haven't read DC comics in a while. The changes they make for the films generally don't bother me too much because comic book stories are always changing, and they're collaborations of authors and artists with creative teams which change over time. For me there's a difference between, say, Marvel studios coming up with their own version of the Captain America story, which has already been through several iterations, and New Line adapting The Hobbit.

That being said, when they're adapting a specific comic, as they did with Captain America: The Winter Soldier, for instance, I do think they sometimes err when they diverge too heavily from the source material.

One of the things I think they missed was an opportunity to focus on the idea of the small person, Bilbo, among the events of history. By showing us too much, like Gandalf at Dol Guldur and the War of the Dwarves and Orcs, not only do we lose focus on Bilbo in general but we lose that sense of history going on around the protagonist just as much as he is involved in shaping it. Bilbo is very important to his own narrative, but I'd argue that it's equally important that he only glimpses the rest of what's been going on: the Necromancer is mentioned, but not seen. The War of the Dwarves and Orcs is mentioned, and Bilbo himself mentions it to Bard and the Elvenking, so evidently he knows or is informed about it at some point (apart from the party at the beginning I mean, in which Azog is mentioned), and the various goings on of the Dwarves and Men and Elves and so forth are all mentioned but the only frame of reference we really have, apart from a few more omniscient narrator moments, are things Bilbo learns, either at the time or after the fact.

That, I would argue, contains that "unexplained vistas" notion of which Professor Tolkien was fond. The films aren't willing to hold back, and disclose too much, which for me at least broke the illusion: perhaps it ought to be left to our imagination regarding what happened at Dol Guldur, for instance. Films are obviously a visual medium, but I often feel as if directors are too reluctant to convey information through dialogue. "The Hobbit" is one of those films where if you watched it with the sound off, you would probably be able to still have a vague idea of what was going on, significantly because of its obsession with cutaways and flashbacks.

Belegorn · 06-13-2015, 05:57 PM

I think about it in this way, that there will be other adaptations which makes it not the end all be all. Maybe the Hobbit will be one movie too in the future.

Lotrelf · 06-14-2015, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belegorn

I think about it in this way, that there will be other adaptations which makes it not the end all be all. Maybe the Hobbit will be one movie too in the future.

Do fans make the movies too? If they do I suppose the film will be closer to the book's story as they won't have anything to show-off to earn money except the story and the real substance. Not sure if any big name in Hollywood can do the deserved justice to the book (in present time), but can hope this from fans if there are any adaptations from them.

Faramir Jones · 06-17-2015, 04:59 AM

I was interested in your last comments, Belegorn and Lotrelf. I'm sure that there will, in the future, be other adaptations of The Hobbit. The more the better, including by fellow fans, so we can put the Jackson adaptations in a proper context.

Faramir Jones · 06-18-2015, 01:35 PM

On a more amusing note, I came across this song about the movies, It's Still Middle Earth to Me, to the tune of Billy Joel's It's Still Rock and Roll to Me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiePj-wxx4s

What do people think?

William Cloud Hicklin · 06-27-2015, 02:12 PM

Well, now that it's over at least (with any luck) the PJ fanboys will go away and leave us alone.

Faramir Jones · 06-27-2015, 06:19 PM

I think some of the 'PJ fanboys' might reemerge when the next adaptation of Tolkien's works comes along.

06-08-2015, 06:13 AM	#1
Zigûr Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 785	Yes I think it's interesting that the way PJ sees it is that he adapted "The Lord of the Rings" to be the story of a hobbit, but didn't adapt "The Hobbit" to be the story of a hobbit. As for superhero films, of the recent (2008 onwards) batch I've enjoyed the first Iron Man, Thor and Captain America films (particularly Captain America) but I'm a bit bored of them now. At the same time, I am something of a comic book reader, but I mostly like old Fantastic Four and Captain America comics, at least as far as Marvel is concerned. I haven't read DC comics in a while. The changes they make for the films generally don't bother me too much because comic book stories are always changing, and they're collaborations of authors and artists with creative teams which change over time. For me there's a difference between, say, Marvel studios coming up with their own version of the Captain America story, which has already been through several iterations, and New Line adapting The Hobbit. That being said, when they're adapting a specific comic, as they did with Captain America: The Winter Soldier, for instance, I do think they sometimes err when they diverge too heavily from the source material. One of the things I think they missed was an opportunity to focus on the idea of the small person, Bilbo, among the events of history. By showing us too much, like Gandalf at Dol Guldur and the War of the Dwarves and Orcs, not only do we lose focus on Bilbo in general but we lose that sense of history going on around the protagonist just as much as he is involved in shaping it. Bilbo is very important to his own narrative, but I'd argue that it's equally important that he only glimpses the rest of what's been going on: the Necromancer is mentioned, but not seen. The War of the Dwarves and Orcs is mentioned, and Bilbo himself mentions it to Bard and the Elvenking, so evidently he knows or is informed about it at some point (apart from the party at the beginning I mean, in which Azog is mentioned), and the various goings on of the Dwarves and Men and Elves and so forth are all mentioned but the only frame of reference we really have, apart from a few more omniscient narrator moments, are things Bilbo learns, either at the time or after the fact. That, I would argue, contains that "unexplained vistas" notion of which Professor Tolkien was fond. The films aren't willing to hold back, and disclose too much, which for me at least broke the illusion: perhaps it ought to be left to our imagination regarding what happened at Dol Guldur, for instance. Films are obviously a visual medium, but I often feel as if directors are too reluctant to convey information through dialogue. "The Hobbit" is one of those films where if you watched it with the sound off, you would probably be able to still have a vague idea of what was going on, significantly because of its obsession with cutaways and flashbacks. __________________ "Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer.

06-13-2015, 05:57 PM	#2
Belegorn Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Henneth Annûn, Ithilien Posts: 462	I think about it in this way, that there will be other adaptations which makes it not the end all be all. Maybe the Hobbit will be one movie too in the future. __________________ "For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously!" - G.S.; F. Nietzsche

06-17-2015, 04:59 AM	#4
Faramir Jones Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lonely Isle Posts: 706	Look to the future I was interested in your last comments, Belegorn and Lotrelf. I'm sure that there will, in the future, be other adaptations of The Hobbit. The more the better, including by fellow fans, so we can put the Jackson adaptations in a proper context.

06-18-2015, 01:35 PM	#5
Faramir Jones Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lonely Isle Posts: 706	It's Still Middle Earth to Me On a more amusing note, I came across this song about the movies, It's Still Middle Earth to Me, to the tune of Billy Joel's It's Still Rock and Roll to Me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiePj-wxx4s What do people think?

06-27-2015, 02:12 PM	#6
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	Well, now that it's over at least (with any luck) the PJ fanboys will go away and leave us alone. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

06-27-2015, 06:19 PM	#7
Faramir Jones Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lonely Isle Posts: 706	Wait till another adaptation comes along I think some of the 'PJ fanboys' might reemerge when the next adaptation of Tolkien's works comes along.