Tol-in-Guarhoth CIX - Ten Year Anniversary Game: Dead Thread - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nogrod · 06-07-2015, 05:01 PM

Let's draw the basics for the old folks...

So Nerwen

1) Actually received the message she told she received and was true with it's content - whatever her own alignment. Thus we should trust both Lottie and Mac are wolves.

2) Actually received the message she told she received but was not true with it's content - because it implied herself or another one of her pack (which would be an interesting thing if the letter (PM) told her to refer it true - what kind of sanctions would breaking that kind of ruling by the mod have?). Thus we could probably trust she has Lottie correct (with her own admittance) but would be kind of in dark with Mac.

3) Is a lover with Sally and made it up to gain time - and happily managed to hit at least one wolf (Lottie, with her own admittance - wouldn't that be annoying Lottie?), but that wouldn't tell us anything about Mac - but maybe that lover-Nerwen probably suspected him seriously?

4) is the seer and gave everyone her two wolves as she saw it was time to do something. Thus we should trust both Lottie and Mac are wolves.

Something seems to be wrong in all the scenarios (except maybe the first)...

I mean could you disobey a clear rule in a game like this? Without sanctions? (2)

What is the idea of coming up with that kind of out of the blue scenario if you're a lover? There must be something I have missed with the arguments for this scenario. (3)

Why would the seer kind of reveal but yet not make it so the ranger would feel it her/his duty to protect her the next Night? Or is she counting on the wolves thinking that she's just an ordo with this kind of luck fallen on her and thus not worthy of killing? (4)

But then there is also the matter of this special role: if the special role is that someone get's the seer's dreams then who did the extra killing? Or is there a kind of merry-go-around -role when someone is for one day the seer-receiver, one is an assassin another etc.?

And what has all this to do with itching and scratching?

Aganzir · 06-07-2015, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

3) Is a lover with Sally and made it up to gain time - and happily managed to hit at least one wolf (Lottie, with her own admittance - wouldn't that be annoying Lottie?), but that wouldn't tell us anything about Mac - but maybe that lover-Nerwen probably suspected him seriously? ... What is the idea of coming up with that kind of out of the blue scenario if you're a lover? There must be something I have missed with the arguments for this scenario. (3)

I'll take a very quick look at her and sally's posts to see if there's anything that would suggest this is the case.

Nogrod · 06-07-2015, 05:20 PM

This option 3 is something I've seen people talk about (I don't remember who) and it kind of escapes me - like what's the point? Or where did this speculation come that Nerwen is a wolf? Surely she hasn't been in a position where she would have been forced to make that kind of thing up?

Anyway, bedtime for me too.

Looking forwards to seeing who can we share the company of come the Day.

Aganzir · 06-07-2015, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

This option 3 is something I've seen people talk about (I don't remember who) and it kind of escapes me - like what's the point?

Buy one of them another day by making the wolves prioritise Nerwen over sally while simultaneously letting the Ranger know sally may need protection. It is a gamble though. But if this is the case, they managed to flush out a wolf nicely so I'm not complaining.

Rikae · 06-07-2015, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Buy one of them another day by making the wolves prioritise Nerwen over sally while simultaneously letting the Ranger know sally may need protection. It is a gamble though. But if this is the case, they managed to flush out a wolf nicely so I'm not complaining.

It seems, though, that it would have been too risky... what if Lottie had been gifted?

Aganzir · 06-07-2015, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikae

It seems, though, that it would have been too risky... what if Lottie had been gifted?

Maybe they were just so sure of her guilt? I don't know though. It's just, if Mac is lying, he's doing a better job than I would have given him credit for (

).

Aganzir · 06-07-2015, 06:03 PM

Also, we're fewer than 70 posts from catching up with the Living thread!

I wonder who are joining us tonight. Not that I'll be here to see it until much later because I should be in bed right now.

If it's Nerwen and she's not sally's lover, I'll feel extra dumb for staying up late to look at their posts.

Rikae · 06-07-2015, 06:06 PM

I kind of had a feeling Boro and Nerwen had some kind of understanding yesterDay, so I went back over Nerwen's posts and noticed this:

#461 "By the way, didn’t Agan say something on Day One about how gifteds should signal to each other?"

And then a few posts later she links it, Agan's post #86:
" I wouldn't presume to advise the seer (still never having been one), but if they happen to dream of another gifted, establishing a connection (if it can be done discreetly enough not to endanger either party) might not be a bad idea at all. That way at least there'd be somebody to steer the village (discreetly or not) in the right direction at the event of the seer's death."

And then Nerwen says in #466
"Now, what do people think of our little snow flower, Lottie?"

And then Boro in #481
"Lottie, I haven't formed much of an opinion on, she's skating under my nose."

Snow flower? Skating?

Rikae · 06-07-2015, 06:11 PM

Boro also "I'm feeling better about morm today"

but he didn't say anything about Mac.

"I've been in a deep slumber from any WW games until recently."

Anyway, looks like Nerwen was looking for confirmation from the seer before her reveal, and got it.

Rikae · 06-07-2015, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

This option 3 is something I've seen people talk about (I don't remember who) and it kind of escapes me - like what's the point? Or where did this speculation come that Nerwen is a wolf? Surely she hasn't been in a position where she would have been forced to make that kind of thing up?

That she's a lover? I joked about it. Well, yesterDay, before Lottie confessed, I thought it might be some sort of lover-scheme, but that doesn't make sense now.

Aganzir · 06-07-2015, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikae

That she's a lover? I joked about it. Well, yesterDay, before Lottie confessed, I thought it might be some sort of lover-scheme, but that doesn't make sense now.

I discussed it briefly shortly after Nerwen's reveal. Still don't think it's impossible.

Aganzir · 06-07-2015, 05:46 PM

NERWEN...

Mentions the lovers for the first time in her second post (it's always the case that signs of pack behaviour may point at the lovers as well).
Questions Firefoot's vote tying plan in #44 partly because it may expose the lovers.
Says the NIGHT 2 narration indicates the lovers are still alive (this is like her fourth post).
Lottie calls morm highly suspicious for suspecting sally. Nerwen indirectly defends her, calling morm eyebrow raising rather than highly suspicious.
Asks if sally (or Boro) gave a reason for voting Nog on DAY 1.
Quote:

Okay. So that’s what you are, Sally. Let me think about this.

Quote:

We could certainly do with some information– and now the wolves will be searching frantically for Sally's lover, so the longer we delay her death the more chance she has of not getting resurrected at all. On the other hand, or paw, she isn’t a wolf. (At least, I don’t see why a wolf-Sally would be making a false reveal right now.)

Really hopes Kuru won't answer Nilp's question about the lovers' gender.
It was over 7 hours into the DAY before she started asking questions about Lottie and others.
Says the village need to think the lynching sally business over, and voting for her right now would be very suspicious. This a little before her reveal.

SALLY...

Before her reveal she didn't say anything about the lovers or about Nerwen.
Mentions they have a new plan to protect her lover and it requires the ranger.

Her belated DAY 1 commentary ends with:

Quote:

More on that in a bit. When last I read the thread, it sounded like Nerwen had something important to share, so I’ll check in on that and then sink my lack of teeth into Day 2 after I grab some lunch.

Explains to Lalaith Nerwen very rarely votes on DAY 1.

Not conclusive but nothing suggests they couldn't be lovers.

(Why did I spend half an hour on this at 3 in the morning?)

06-07-2015, 05:01 PM	#1
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	Let's draw the basics for the old folks... So Nerwen 1) Actually received the message she told she received and was true with it's content - whatever her own alignment. Thus we should trust both Lottie and Mac are wolves. 2) Actually received the message she told she received but was not true with it's content - because it implied herself or another one of her pack (which would be an interesting thing if the letter (PM) told her to refer it true - what kind of sanctions would breaking that kind of ruling by the mod have?). Thus we could probably trust she has Lottie correct (with her own admittance) but would be kind of in dark with Mac. 3) Is a lover with Sally and made it up to gain time - and happily managed to hit at least one wolf (Lottie, with her own admittance - wouldn't that be annoying Lottie?), but that wouldn't tell us anything about Mac - but maybe that lover-Nerwen probably suspected him seriously? 4) is the seer and gave everyone her two wolves as she saw it was time to do something. Thus we should trust both Lottie and Mac are wolves. Something seems to be wrong in all the scenarios (except maybe the first)... I mean could you disobey a clear rule in a game like this? Without sanctions? (2) What is the idea of coming up with that kind of out of the blue scenario if you're a lover? There must be something I have missed with the arguments for this scenario. (3) Why would the seer kind of reveal but yet not make it so the ranger would feel it her/his duty to protect her the next Night? Or is she counting on the wolves thinking that she's just an ordo with this kind of luck fallen on her and thus not worthy of killing? (4) But then there is also the matter of this special role: if the special role is that someone get's the seer's dreams then who did the extra killing? Or is there a kind of merry-go-around -role when someone is for one day the seer-receiver, one is an assassin another etc.? And what has all this to do with itching and scratching? __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

06-07-2015, 05:20 PM	#3
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	This option 3 is something I've seen people talk about (I don't remember who) and it kind of escapes me - like what's the point? Or where did this speculation come that Nerwen is a wolf? Surely she hasn't been in a position where she would have been forced to make that kind of thing up? Anyway, bedtime for me too. Looking forwards to seeing who can we share the company of come the Day. __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

06-07-2015, 06:03 PM	#7
Aganzir Woman of Secret Shadow Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells Posts: 4,511	Also, we're fewer than 70 posts from catching up with the Living thread! I wonder who are joining us tonight. Not that I'll be here to see it until much later because I should be in bed right now. If it's Nerwen and she's not sally's lover, I'll feel extra dumb for staying up late to look at their posts. __________________ He bit me, and I was not gentle.

06-07-2015, 06:06 PM	#8
Rikae Mellifluous Maia Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth Posts: 3,489	I kind of had a feeling Boro and Nerwen had some kind of understanding yesterDay, so I went back over Nerwen's posts and noticed this: #461 "By the way, didn’t Agan say something on Day One about how gifteds should signal to each other?" And then a few posts later she links it, Agan's post #86: " I wouldn't presume to advise the seer (still never having been one), but if they happen to dream of another gifted, establishing a connection (if it can be done discreetly enough not to endanger either party) might not be a bad idea at all. That way at least there'd be somebody to steer the village (discreetly or not) in the right direction at the event of the seer's death." And then Nerwen says in #466 "Now, what do people think of our little snow flower, Lottie?" And then Boro in #481 "Lottie, I haven't formed much of an opinion on, she's skating under my nose." Snow flower? Skating?

06-07-2015, 06:11 PM	#9
Rikae Mellifluous Maia Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth Posts: 3,489	Boro also "I'm feeling better about morm today" but he didn't say anything about Mac. "I've been in a deep slumber from any WW games until recently." Anyway, looks like Nerwen was looking for confirmation from the seer before her reveal, and got it.