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Wight
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The best seat in the Golden Perch
Posts: 219
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Treebeard is one of the "Shepherds of the Trees" and they can be definitively dated to the time the Children of Ilúvatar awoke:
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The second observation is that Gandalf is claiming Treebeard to be older than Círdan, which is quite important, as Círdan is almost certainly the oldest Elf left in Middle-earth, was on the Great Journey, and may even remember Cuiviénen. This therefore dates Treebeard's age to at the time the Elves awoke, or very shortly after it. The third observation is that Gandalf is drawing a distinction between "living things" and spirits; Gandalf as we know is one of the Ainur, he existed before the world was created, and is therefore older than Treebeard by default, so when Gandalf says "oldest living thing" he is not including the Valar, the Maiar and other spirits. Bombadil seems to claim to remember a time when most of Middle-earth still lay under the Sleep of Yavanna: Quote:
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If Bombadil is an older class of spirit, or even one from before the world was created, then his claim to remember the first acorn puts him at the earliest end of this possible timescale, which makes him older than Treebeard. However, we don't know who his is so he could just as easily be at the later end of it and be referring to the Second Spring of Arda, i.e after the Sun rose, and he's therefore possibly younger than Treebeard. However again, noting that Gandalf exempted spirits from the class of "living things" above, we have to wonder if the question of which was oldest even makes any sense. In the end we just don't have enough information to give a definitive answer.
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Then one appeared among us, in our own form visible, but greater and more beautiful; and he said that he had come out of pity. |
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