The Battle of the 5+ Armies

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Saw it, xmas eve. Cailin and I agreed that it was fairly entertaining, as long as one views it as a comedy. That's what we've been reduced to: gaily laughing, over popcorn, at the ridiculousness to which one of my favourite books has been rendered. As has been mentioned many times already, we complained, fruitfully (imo), for hours about minor things in the LotR films - that's because they stand alone, securely, as films in their own right. My complaints of those films are meaningful, because, had certain things been tweaked, we would forever look upon them as marvels of cinema (the misrepresentation of Pelennor Fields frustrates me to this day) and that makes the discussion so compelling. Not so with the Hobbit films. There's no 'near miss' with these films which I could find frustrating; they're just totally forgettable.

I'll go through some points of particular annoyance.

1. Beorn. What on earth? One of the most fun parts of the book. Cut out completely.

2. Bard and his family. Stop saying 'Da' - it is annoying. More time spent on Bard's family than Beorn. Why? So we 'connect' with Bard more? Bard is there to kill the dragon. That's it. And while we're at it, why so much time spent on that villain in Lake-town, whose name I forget? Why was he on, like, three separate occasions awarded positions of responsibility? Unnecessary, and no pay-off anyway, so why bother?

3. Legolas. He had more screen time than Gandalf, I'm fairly sure. And he was probably rivalling Bilbo as well. Nonsensical stunts and, for some reason, something resembling a storyline about his mother. What. Is. Going. On? That thing at the end where Thranduil talks to him about Aragorn? Dearie, dearie me... so, achingly, a display of begging, usually reserved for bad comedians: "remember LotR? we did that! it was pretty good, eh?" Yes, we're all aware. Try to make a film that stands on its own merits. We already have the Ring to make the link explicit.

4. That mess with Sauron. You take Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond and Saruman, and make them fight against the Necromancer, and I'm wondering: how can this possibly suck? Well, they did it, folks. Why did that fail? Is it because it's ridiculous to think that the leaders of Middle-earth would show up for a battle without an army? Is it because they showed the Ringwraiths, even though they were meant to be a bit of a surprise to Gandalf et al in the LotR? Is it because Galadriel did her freaky ghost voice which no-one buys as interesting storytelling?

5. Which leads perfectly to Thorin's 'I've got voices in my head' scene. Subtlety, Mr Jackson, get some. It makes things much less awkward.

6. Bump the dragon-slaying to the end of the second film. Marginal gains on both sides.

7. Killing an orc is about as tricky as killing a spider which crawls into my house. Why are we afraid of them again?

8. "Say goodbye to the other Dwarves for me." "I don't need to: they're standing right behind you." "Oh yes, I hadn't realised that they were all standing, literally, right behind me. How emotional."

I'll never watch it again. I had thought that about LotR but, to be honest, I watched RotK for the first time in a long time recently and was greetin' like a bairn so I was wrong there. The Hobbit films will never have that sort of impact upon anyone. They've been a total failure. I look forward, however, to a different director making a completely different adaptation some time in the future.

But please: no Silmarillion adaptations. That would depress me no end.

[alatar]

Oh, that reminds me. Mrs. alatar did not want to see Bard's kids killed, so maybe that was the demographic the filmmakers were going for.

And Legolas had a mother? So did Bolg, and though his mother may have been eaten by a Morgul bat, I don't feel anything for him either.

"They're standing right behind you, posing for a picture."

[Kuruharan]

So, credit where credit is due. Bilbo's departure scene was pretty good, except for the beginning which was stupid...oh, and the fact that it was more than a little jerkish of Bilbo to be sneaking off from his friends after all they had gone through together (to point out that Bilbo did not leave in this manner in the book, I suppose, doesn't count for anything anymore). Also, where Bilbo returns to Bag End was ok.

I would again praise Ken Stott as Balin, but he was in the film for so little time that it hardly seems worth mentioning...and the whole dragon sickness thing was so stupid as to poison everything it touched. I was also for the most part not impressed by Freeman in this film as his mannerisms really began to grate.

Everything else about this movie was utter garbage. Just like the second film it yet again was utter garbage on its own terms, even disassociated from the idea of it being an adaptation of Tolkien's book (which I wish from the depths of my soul that these films were disassociated from Tolkien's name).

JacksCo has no understanding of pacing and doesn't have the imagination or the skill to tell a good story on their own. That's why it enrages me so that they think they are so superior to him (and seem to sneer at him in several instances) when in reality they are not worthy to clean the mud from the bottom of his shoes.

I will cite some examples:

Pacing
Everything to do with Wormtongue Jr. (or I guess that should be Senior since Whatshisface would be older than Grima). Almost every time this character appeared on camera you could be certain that the scene would serve no particular purpose toward advancing the plot which bogs down the film.

The endless Bolg vs. Legolas fight. My word that got boring. It was not helped by the ridiculous and tedious setting of the fight. Worst of all, we've seen the LoTR we know Legolas must survive! It is just a waste of our time.

To sum up my Pacing section, I would like to note my belief that the only reason why the Bilbo Departure scene mostly worked was because it was short and was one of the few scenes that was not dragged out beyond its natural lifespan.

Story

Tauriel, I must mention her. The whole thing was just so stupid.

Dragon sickness. Apparently incurable and comes with hallucinations. There was audible laughter in the theater (not by me) when Thorin fell into the imaginary molten gold pit (another scene that went on too long). Maybe laughter was what JacksCo was going for in this case?

The continual attempts by JacksCo to create tension by creating shallow problems between the good guys. In fairness, this is the same trick they have been using since at least RotK with Theoden (and I hated it then) but this time it just got to the point of childishness. In particular when the dwarves were marching to confront the orcs and it looked like the elves were just going to stand there and do nothing...until the last moment when they did their silly acrobatics.

Kili's death scene. I know some of you have spoken favorably about it, but I just don't see it myself. I think part of my problem was that it became just a part of that endless Bolg fight. Also, there was laughter in the theater when Kili was killed (again, not from me) and a cry of "kill her too" (I know what you are thinking...but that wasn't me either).

Azog's eye scare. I don't know if it is JacksCo's background in horror or what...but everyone and I mean EVERYONE knew Azog was going to open his eyes and stab Thorin. Seriously, one can only shake one's head.

Makes me wonder why the public pays money to see this kind of crap...oh right, JacksCo latched themselves onto the name of somebody with actual talent and have been milking it for more than its worth.

Minor Points

Handy that nobody noticed Azog's command post being built in the middle of the night on Ravenhill...which according to movie geography would have been right in between the Mountain and Dale. So much for those sharp-eyed elves.

As alatar noted Armor is Useless.

I think there should also be a related trope called "Law of Diminishing Weapon" that states that the more broken the hero's weapon becomes the more deadly a fighter the hero is and cite Thorin as an example. (note, there may be such and I just didn't search for the right name. That's one of the problems I'm getting to have with tvtropes of late. They have reached the "getting too clever for their own good" stage of development).

It is getting awfully late where I live, so I think I will stop there except for one last thing...

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Dearie, dearie me... so, achingly, a display of begging, usually reserved for bad comedians: "remember LotR? we did that! it was pretty good, eh?" Yes, we're all aware.

I'm not sure that JacksCo themselves remember that they made LoTR because so many of the things that they do to try to create "tension" are completely invalidated by the fact that we've seen LoTR and know that whoever it is who is in danger (usually Legolas) must survive!

[alatar]

Speaking of acrobatics, and knowing that no electrons were harmed during the filming of any of these movies, but why is it that since Helm's Deep elves feel the need to leave their bows slung? Wouldn't it have been nice when, at the same time the elves leap over the dwarven wall that a million arrows accompany them? They were more than ready to shoot arrows at Thorin, who posed much less of a target, and probably was wearing mithril undergarments.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

One entertaining thing, from a wrestling fan's perspective, was seeing Legolas bust out a legit hurricanrana on that one orc.

[Elmo]

As the only major high point in ~10000 square miles, whoever controls the Lonely Mountain is well placed strategically to control a large swathe of the North. I believe that the dwarves used their position there to get hegemony over the Men of the North? Might be mentioned in 'Of Men and Dwarves'? Definitely not flipping Wood Elves though.

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I think there should also be a related trope called "Law of Diminishing Weapon" that states that the more broken the hero's weapon becomes the more deadly a fighter the hero is and cite Thorin as an example. (note, there may be such and I just didn't search for the right name. That's one of the problems I'm getting to have with tvtropes of late. They have reached the "getting too clever for their own good" stage of development).

Tolkien is guilty of this. Didn't Isildur cut Sauron's ring off his finger with the shards of Narsil?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Elmo

Tolkien is guilty of this. Didn't Isildur cut Sauron's ring off his finger with the shards of Narsil?

We have enough stupid, un-Tolkien scenes from TH to go over without bringing up stupid, un-Tolkien scenes from LotR.

[Elmo]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

We have enough stupid, un-Tolkien scenes from TH to go over without bringing up stupid, un-Tolkien scenes from LotR.

Did Isildur not use the shards? I've care enough about this ive checked three different wikis and they all say he did