WW CVII: Restless Nights in Sleepy Hollow - Game Thread

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I agree that Rikae's is the best-looking vote - although I think she'd be capable of bussing a fellow in a situation like yesterDay's.

That did actually occur to me, since a wolf would have seen the vote was for one of their fellows and realised that presumably the other 3 innocents would not be opposed to voting for Sally, there was no reason to really think that any innocents would be opposed to my idea. So yes, an evil Rikae could have assumed that all of the innocents would follow and she could then be the first to do so and look really good as a result. (but, the way Rikae was pretty passionate at the end of the Day yesterday looked like a very anxious innocent to me)

Although I think it's interesting that you mention that your own vote looks suspicious.

My post was basically outlining the suspiciousness of the votes based almost solely on the order they were given, I couldn't really get away with saying Nerwen's looks worst because it was close to the end without admitting that the same could be said of mine.

Then again, it would be really risky to so openly swim against the current, especially after it was obvious that Sally was going to get killed. I'm not sure if Shastawolf would do that.

I'm beginning to think the same, he must have realised that if he blatantly went against the group we would be suspecting him today, I don't think that a wolf Shasta would want to put himself in that kind of position. However, I also don't see why an innocent Shasta would do it either, knowing that if we waste a lynch on him today we lose, but perhaps he wasn't thinking that far ahead. Either way it's weird, I don't know which is more likely.

And this by Sally:

Nerwen (and anyone else around right now), we have to vote together or we will die. I'll go with the wisdom of others in choosing between Dun and Rikae, because her actions toDay have shot her far up the list, and Dun's never left that position. Also admittedly because I know my role for sure, and I don't know theirs, so either of them is automatically a better choice than me

Now, to me this looks like she could be suggesting to her mates (Nerwen possibly being one of them, though I don't know if she'd be that direct in addressing them), to vote between either Inzil or Rikae. I think this makes Rikae look really good, just the way Sally says either of them are a better choice than herself, etc.

x'ed with Shasta

[Shastanis Althreduin]

In fact, Wilwa, Greenie - why, exactly, does my reluctance to vote Sally yesterday look bad? As I recall, the reason for voting Sally yesterday was basically a blanket "well, Inzil voted her, and we don't want to vote Inzil because he's our only other option", not that Sally was in and of herself suspicious. Plus, as I already pointed out, the wolves yesterday would have been perfectly fine with voting off Sally, since they're in the same almost-win situation today that they were yesterday.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Wilwa

but, the way Rikae was pretty passionate at the end of the Day yesterday looked like a very anxious innocent to me

What reason would an innocent Rikae have had to be anxious yesterDay? Sally was already being lynched.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Because if seers mean anything at all, Inzil is innocent, and therefore a wrong vote from him would have doomed us already. Because if Inzil is right, we'll be in the same situation toMorrow, and I don't wish to create more confusion.
There is no innocent reason to wait around hoping for something better (as you apparently did).

Inzil being innocent doesn't necessarily translate to Inzil being right. Yes, he did end up voting for a wolf, but there was no way to be 100% certain at the time. Again, there were virtually no actual arguments for lynching Sally yesterday - she was pretty much voted for because Inzil picked her.

I also don't think there was any "confusion" created by me not hopping on the bandwagon and voting Sally immediately. In fact, I was the only person besides Sally herself that didn't vote for her, so yesterday's verdict was pretty well locked in fairly early.

And I'll be honest - I'm not really certain where those lasts posts of yours came from, about me not knowing the situation? I was perfectly aware that we'd still be at lynch-or-lose even if Inzil was right - I'm not really sure how that was relevant.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Wilwa

So I would think the wolves would have wanted to wait at least a little bit to see if anyone else would vote for an innocent so that they could just jump on board. As soon as Sally voted for Inzil they would have just needed one ordo to go alone with that and the other 2 wolves could have jumped on. Rikae therefore looks really good here, I think a wolf would have waited until at least 2 or 3 people had voted before jumping on.

I actually want to come back to this. In most cases, I'd buy this... but Sally voted Inzil who was voted Most Likely To Be Dreamt Innocent. I don't see anyone innocent voting for him over Sally yesterday - plus I've already talked about the ramifications of sacrificing a wolf yesterday, especially in light of Inzil being the first to vote.

Honestly, this whole post sort of looks like Wilwa is in a rush to exonerate Rikae and condemn me... and her reasoning sort of falls flat in both cases.

[wilwarin538]

Shasta, there was confusion created by you not voting Sally, because she turned out to be a wolf. The majority of us agreed to follow Inzil's vote, whatever it was, because all voting the same was better than voting all over the place. Your reluctance to follow this plan, pretty much our only logical option, is suspect. The confusion comes because now it is hard to tell whether you are a wolf who didn't want to vote their fellow, or an innocent who simply didn't understand the importance of the village sticking together. Even if your vote ended up not influencing anything, it still creates a confusing situation. When I suggested the plan I even stated that anyone who didn't follow it would look bad later.

And I'm not exonerating Rikae, I just think her behavior looks more innocent, she stated yesterday what I just did, that you voting differently would cause an issue today if Sally was guilty, maybe it was a wolf preemptively drawing suspicion to you, but it looked more like an innocent who was becoming aware of the issue we'd have to deal with today.

[Rikae]

I'm here momentarily, but I'm afraid I can't be much help toDay - Mac's birthday stuff. I would have liked to analyze everyone's interactions with Sally, but I'm not likely to get the chance.

However, I do want to try and clear this up:

Originally Posted by Shasta

Inzil being innocent doesn't necessarily translate to Inzil being right.

Of course it doesn't. But Inzil being innocent would mean that if he (or any other ordo) was wrong, the game would have been over. The wolves could have piled on and decided the lynch.

But I strongly suspect you were aware of that, which is why you waited around so long yourself. You even just mentioned it

Originally Posted by Shasta

we were always going to be in the position of "if an innocent votes an innocent, we lose"

- so why are you feigning ignorance of that whenever you talk about my vote?

[wilwarin538]

I'm only going to be around for another hour or so, at that point I will have to vote. Still not sure for whom. Lots of pressure on whoever votes first, but I'm not going to be able to come back later. Going to look at Sally's posts quickly.

[wilwarin538]

So Sally expressed suspicion specifically at some point on both Rikae and I. I did not see her really ever mention much about Greenie, perhaps that was on purpose. But Nerwen and Shasta.....

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Meanwhile, my Nerwen radar is saying....nothing, which is distinctly unsettling. In my experience, my Nerwen radar always gives off the exact opposite impression, which is to say that I suspect her when she's innocent (especially when she's gifted) and ignore her when she's evil. I'd forgotten she was playing until I came across one of her posts, and I'll also note that she's not done nearly as much saccharine banter with Shasta as I would expect (though perhaps that's due to his own lack of participation?). I don't feel comfortable voting her toDay based solely on this, but it's something I must keep an eye on.

This sort of feels like possible wolf-on-wolf. She even says she tends to ignore her when she's evil and that she forgot she was playing (and mentions Shasta in this thought) I think Greenie even pointed out a post by Nerwen yesterday that had a similar wolf-on-wolf feel towards Sally.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Suddenly finding my votes for you incredibly suspicious when only hours ago[/URL] you found Nerwen and Shasta the best wolf candidates based on voting trends? Why change your position to me? Could it be that one (or both, which....unlikely) of them is your packmate?

This one is a bit of a stretch, I'm admitting, but notice the part I bolder, just an interesting choice of wording, why is it unlikely they are both wolves? Perhaps because they are?

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Actually, I've just noticed that both Dun and Rikae say Nerwen and Shasta look fishiest.

Once again putting their names together, along with suspecting Dun and Rikae.

So, three examples of Sally mentioning both Shasta and Nerwen together and not throwing any suspicion their way, while she did suspect Rikae and I. Based on Sally's posts, and also with the fact that Shasta did not vote for her and Nerwen voted for her much later, I'm leaning towards these two as her pack-mates.

[Nerwen]

So… just got in and, from a skim of the thread, I see there’s this meme building up that my vote, or the placement thereof, was very, very wicked.

Let me point out that my vote was actually the one that decided the lynch.

As for why I delayed voting: I wanted to see what would happen. If we all voted at once we’d either have lost (had Sally been innocent) or got *a* wolf but had nothing further to go on, since all wolves would have been able to hide in the general Sallywaggon. As it is, I believe Shasta may have given himself away- will take a closer look at him shortly.

Apart from that, it was also a pride-thing– I don’t like blindly following another’s vote and I wanted satisfy myself that there were, actually, legitimate grounds for suspecting Sally.

Originally Posted by Wilwa

So, three examples of Sally mentioning both Shasta and Nerwen together and not throwing any suspicion their way, while she did suspect Rikae and I. Based on Sally's posts, and also with the fact that Shasta did not vote for her and Nerwen voted for her much later, I'm leaning towards these two as her pack-mates.

Come on, Wilwa, you know perfectly well that wolves like pairing up packmate + innocent when they talk about people. I mean, it’s elementary wolfing technique, but still effective in that it tends to create a link between the players in the public mind– something they *don’t* want to happen with two packmates.

[wilwarin538]

OK, well I'm just going to go for it. I have to sleep so badly and will not be up in time for DL, and I don't want to not vote.

I suggest to the other two innocents in the group to try and maybe wait a bit before voting. If my vote is for an innocent than the wolves will jump right on and win, but if they are guilty the wolves are either going to immediately come on and vote differently or will wait until closer to DL to vote, hoping someone votes differently from me. Basically, if you two innocents notice that no one else is voting immediately after me take that as I sign that I got lucky and vote the same as me. If I'm wrong, we lost and I'm very sorry!

++Shasta

Good luck guys. I hope we get another Day.

[Nerwen]

Well, I hope they’re not both innocent...

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

I suggest to the other two innocents in the group to try and maybe wait a bit before voting.

The rest of us can vote now, though, right?

++Shasta

[Nerwen]

Great. So it’s Rikae and Greenie, then?

[Rikae]

I would hate for this to be the one game where I didn't do this:

I AM THE SEER!

Ok, that's better.

[Nerwen]

Fine. Won’t do any good now, but–

++Rikae

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Rikae

The rest of us can vote now, though, right?

Well....now just to find out who the other one is....if it's Greenie I'm going to be especially impressed with this wolf pack...

edit: and it is. Wow. And I almost voted Nerwen so I just was not meant to get this right *sigh*

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Wilwa

Well....now just to find out who the other one is....if it's Greenie I'm going to be especially impressed with this wolf pack....

It’s not me, so it must be her.

Well, at least now I feel vindicated for suspecting her earlier in the game.

Also, I was just about to mention my concern about Sally's pairing of Zil + Rikae yesterDay… as you see, all too justified.

Ah well. Nicely played, wolves!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Wilwa, do you really think I would have a problem bussing a pack mate? My vote wasn't even in until votes were LOCKED yesterday, so accusing me of sowing confusion by "splitting the vote"... Sigh.

I told you something was telling me to vote Rikae.

[A Little Green]

++ Shasta

Sorry, honey.

[Aganzir]

Looks like it's game over then!

The morning was very quiet. Inzil's gruesome death had shocked the villagers, but not as much as finding out their dear friend and neighbour sally had in fact been plotting against them all along.

Finally wilwa spoke up: "It must be Shasta! Rikae would never had done it!"

Rikae nodded, smirking.

"I agree wholeheartedly," piped in Algae and flashed a toothy smile.

"You are missing the point!" cried Shasta, "can't you see it doesn't make sense!? It's Rikae!"

"You're so confusing, Shasta," said wilwa.

"Can we take this a bit slower?" asked Nerwen.

"No! It's got to be Shasta!" wilwa yelled and pointed a finger at him.

"Yes, we quite agree," said Rikae and Algae, grinning wickedly, and started advancing on poor Shasta who was still trying to explain why it was Rikae, not him.

"Uh-oh," said Nerwen.

The village could but stand and watch in horror as Rikae and Algae built a fire and skewered Shasta. While he was roasting, they turned their attention to Nerwen and wilwa.

"How about some cold appetizers?" asked Algae.

"Liver pâté, perhaps?" said Rikae.

"I'll fix us Bloody Marys," said Algae.

The Living
Rikae - Wolf
A Little Green - Wolf

The Dead
Kitanna – ripped apart Night 1 - Moddess
Legate of Amon Lanc - Brained on Day 1 - Ranger
Aganzir - Scalped on Night 2 - Ordo
Macalaure - Set on fire Day 2 - Ordo
McCaber - Choked on bits of Agan Night 3 - Seer
satansaloser2005 - Thrown under a carriage Day 3 - Wolf
Inziladun - Beheaded Night 4 - Ordo
Shastanis Althreduin - Skewered and roasted on Day 4 - Ordo
wilwarin538 - Cooked into liver pate on Day 4 - Ordo
Nerwen - Drunk as a cocktail on Day 4 - Ordo

[Inziladun]

Aahhh!!

Well, nicely managed by the wolves! I had a little suspicion of Rikae, but I was thinking pretty well of Greenie based on what Cab had said.

Bad luck all around for the village, with RangerLegate buying it Day 1, then Cab. At least we prevented a clean sweep, and I was instrumental in taking down a Sallywolf.

Thanks for the game, Kit! Sometimes the simple rules are a welcome change.

[Inziladun]

And not even a consolation prize for us hapless innocents.

[McCaber]

My first dream was Shasta. I know he usually doesn't give me much to go on and I usually cannot get a read on him. That was why I mentioned being against voting a submarine towards the end of Day 1.

Night 2 I dreamt of sally. I spent that whole day waiting for her to slip on something so I could call her on it and make a point without being too obvious. Unfortunately it seems that the wolves picked up on that pretty quickly. I made a huge mistake in not calling out LG after a post of Nerwen's finally made me realize that I was being played. And I thought there was a bigger difference between "didn't see anything" and "have seen nothing". That one's on me.

Night 3 I dreamt of LG but wasn't able to do anything about it due to being dead. But knowing that sally and Greenie were both wolves, IDing Rikae as the last was pretty elementary.

[wilwarin538]

Ugh, well that was a major fail on my part Congrats to the wolves!


And after all of that McCaber didn't even dream of Inzil

[Galadriel55]

Well done, wolves! And nice try village. With both gifteds out of the way so early, you really took the challenge well.

But the Shasta lynch? He was so obviously innocent! How could you listen to those wolves whispering some technicalities nonsense? I guess well done wolves again.

[Rikae]

Well done, wolfies!

Drinks all around!

Well, I was going to congratulate you, McCaber on successfully giving the village at least Inzil to trust - and now you come along and say you didn't? I was sure that you had! Everything I said about that was 100% honest (well, except for my reason for avoiding Greenie...). It really looked like you dreamt of him!

Also: we didn't know you dreamt of Sally. We killed you because of this:

Originally Posted by Greenie

Obviously overusing seeing metaphors is not always a smart thing for a Seer to do, but even without those I think it's interesting how he differentiates between Inzil and me; he's somewhat definite on Inzil looking like an ordo, and specifies in my case that I've done nothing suspicious that he can see. Inzil would have been a logical dream for last Night, anyway. Do you guys think this is a possibility, or am I completely off here?

And this:

Originally Posted by McCaber

I'm not sure I agree with lynching the silent ones Day 1. In my experience, the people with something to play for are the ones who tend to show up early, while the lurkers tend to be ordinary innocents.

Those looked like seer hints to us, at least more than anything anyone else did - so basically, we knew you were the seer, but for all the wrong reasons.

Anyway, Inzil certainly rose to the occasion on Day 3! I was so disappointed when I saw his vote: he'd mentioned Shasta and Nerwen before, so I thought we were set.

And, of course, SHASTA *shakes fist* you're basically a free seer and sensible wolves would always kill you on Night 1!

[McCaber]

Why Aganzir?

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by McCaber

Why Aganzir?

I should probably let Sally tell that story...

[A Little Green]

Ha! I guessed Cab had dreamed Shasta as an ordo, but obviously didn't want to parade that when the village was so happily considering me as a dreamed innocent! Anyway, thanks for a great game, everyone! (And sorry Legate.)

[Kitanna]

Thank you again, Agan, for calling time and putting together a narration that captured the spirit of this village.

And thank you to everyone who played.

Legate - I will not vote for you on Day 1 next game we play together, not after witnessing that unfortunate lynch this time.

Wolves - I honestly thought you would sweep through up until Zil voted Sally. Good job.

McCaber - your seering was superb. I was impressed when you got two wolves back to back only to be done in that night.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I am sorry for missing the first day. It didn't occur to me that the game would start so (relatively) quickly! I was so excited to play again, and then I just acted the Cassandra.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I should probably let Sally tell that story...

Oh, do I have to? It's really rather embarrassing.

I'll dig out those PMs and post them in the morning, along with my other merry thoughts. Good job and well played to all, especially my two partners, who were beyond fantastic. Until toMorrow.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Thanks for the (however short on my part) game, Kitanna! I really pity I didn't have more time to play here, especially I would have wanted to see how I fare as a Ranger (haven't really done much of that throughout my WW career). But hey, somebody has to die on Day 1, and the whole thing came in terrible rush. (It was just ridiculous because I was so certain I was not going to be lynched, because of the two people left to vote, one didn't have originally any specific case against me, and one specifically listed me among people she does not want to get lynched But we've cleared that up.)

But, brave fight from the village in the last Days, and likewise from the Wolves. And such sad bad luck from the Seer. Two Wolves known in the village would really have made the difference. A pity at least if the hints about the dreams hadn't been clearer, too, because the village could have saved itself some trouble... since despite the attempts to be careful with hints, the WWs had anyway picked up the trail based on the general remarks. Well, obviously also a Seer without the Ranger around is much less safe than normally, since at the moment you're revealed, you are dead.

It was good to follow the game for a while, anyway, and especially good to see lots of people returning. I hope this won't mean the end of it and that we can look forward to more. I certainly am.

[Aganzir]

Thank you for the game, Kitanna, and congrats wolves! Well played!

I'm so so sorry about lynching you, Legate. You remember the song Inzil posted on day 1? I thought it was a seer hint ("if you could see what I see...") and didn't want to risk lynching him. So I did what I'm best at and acted chaotically - I wanted to look like the seer who had dreamed Inzil innocent (funnily enough I really trusted him and Legate from the start, just as I equally distrusted sally and Algae from the start) and was quite obvious about it (newbie pass, I thought, because in these 7.5 years of sporadic WW, I've never been the seer) and didn't even consider what Algae pointed out later about me missing night 1; and I also wanted to give the impression I was the Wildcard although I didn't think there was one. All this worked well enough because I was killed - not always my goal but quite entertaining to do at times.

I really enjoyed playing and watching this so thanks everyone!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

You remember the song Inzil posted on day 1? I thought it was a seer hint ("if you could see what I see...") and didn't want to risk lynching him. So I did what I'm best at and acted chaotically - I wanted to look like the seer who had dreamed Inzil innocent (funnily enough I really trusted him and Legate from the start, just as I equally distrusted sally and Algae from the start.

Yeah, I really never thought about that line in the song! I was punchy from being tired, and just felt like putting up a good tune.

My aim was to simply be confusing, and hopefully take attention away from the Gifteds and allow them to get on with business. Since I tend to be a rather clueless wolf-hunter, I thought that might be my best way to contribute.

[Galadriel55]

So all the ordos pretend to be gifteds and the gifteds are the first to go. That's the spirit!

[satansaloser2005]

So in answer to that question, I offer the following.

When the game began, I looked at the player list and counted twelve people, at which point I assumed we had a wildcard. (I, um, counted Kitanna by mistake. Whoops. ) Throughout the course of the first Day, I threw out a couple of hints to said wildcard and once it was Night, I sent the following PM to my lycanthropic ladies.

Originally Posted by PM

I believe Agan is our best bet for the Night. Why? Because I think she might be saying, "Roger, wolf tower." And if not, I've still an inkling to remove her from play ASAP.

I will draw your memories to Kit's next to last game, in which I was a wolf and we turned our cursed, Agan, who helped us to a stunning victory (posthumous for me) after some spectacular hints leading up to her conversion. It was this, not the most recent game, that I was referring to in my first post, and I believe Agan may have picked up on that.

If Agan is the wildcard, I would expect her inclinations to lean toward choosing the darker path, and asking about the wildcard despite being the wildcard is the bold sort of trick she would pull. I would also expect some sort of hints (which I believe we're seeing above).

If Agan is the seer, I think the last post I quoted would give her enough reason to dream me if she hasn't already, which would be very bad for me and therefore sort of bad for us (though please do not put my personal survival above the good of the pack).

Either way, I feel she's our best choice, and I've not heard from either of you lovely lycanthropic ladies yet, so I'm sending this message to Kit as well just in case neither of you can make it back before deadline.

Mistress, please consider our kill choice to be Agan unless one of my fellows should tell you otherwise. Ladies, please do proceed how you see fit, and we shall sort out the body parts in the morning.

I realize shortly afterward that it was I, not she, who had miscounted the number of players in the game, and I felt immensely idiotic, but I maintain we made the right choice in getting rid of the sultry minx.

So that's why Agan. Basically because I am bad at math and don't double check my work. *headdesks*

[Rikae]

All's well that ends well, though! And killing Agan seemed reasonable enough to me at the time.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Sally

I will draw your memories to Kit's next to last game, in which I was a wolf and we turned our cursed, Agan, who helped us to a stunning victory (posthumous for me) after some spectacular hints leading up to her conversion. It was this, not the most recent game, that I was referring to in my first post, and I believe Agan may have picked up on that.

If Agan is the wildcard, I would expect her inclinations to lean toward choosing the darker path, and asking about the wildcard despite being the wildcard is the bold sort of trick she would pull. I would also expect some sort of hints (which I believe we're seeing above).

Ah, so I was right about the wildcard thing! You’re referring to “Panic at the Prancing Pony”, right, Sally? I was thinking of that myself… really should have followed up that thought with, “well, so who else here was a Wraith with me that game?”