Shadow of Mordor

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

The plot of the game is contrary to the letter and spirit of Tolkien falling literally under the label of something Tolkien repeatedly criticized in "trying to use the weapons and means of the Enemy against him" with first Celebrimbor and then the Celebrimbor/Talion wraith-hybrid dominating and using orc armies to fight Sauron and trying to set themselves up as the "Bright Lords of Mordor."

Vomitus stuff, really.

I didn't realise how bizarre the plot for this game was until your post inspired me to go look it up, Kuru. Just going by what's stated on Wikipedia, according to 'Shadow of Mordor':
-at one point Celebrimbor stole the One Ring and tried to take over Mordor himself, Orcs and all (what happened to the War of the Elves and Sauron?)
-Núrn was a kingdom of seafarers taken over by Sauron and their true queen was possessed by Saruman (did they think their Lake was so big it was actually the ocean?)
-outcasts from Gondor live inside Mordor (presumably the Lord of the Nazgûl was confounded by some loophole when it came to evicting squatters)
-human sacrifice, instead of being the intentionally wasteful practice of a mendacious religion, actually has magical powers
-Sauron can possess people?
-Men think they can make Rings of Power
-Celebrimbor's spirit hung around for four thousand years or so instead of heading straight for Mandos after he was slain

The only idea that comes across as remotely plausible to me is the notion of Black Númenórean lieutenants with titles rather than names.

As I speculated in that other thread, of course, it'd probably be a violence-for-violence's-sake generic revenge story that completely contradicts the arguments of Tolkien's work, and clearly it is.

I predict that someone on the internet at some point will inexplicably use Túrin as an example to justify this.

[Zigûr]

Interesting article here about how the game contradicts Professor Tolkien's themes by presenting violence and revenge as entertainment:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti...ien-Fanfiction
A highlight is this remark which I think could also apply to a lot of commentary on both the books and adaptations:

It thinks the defining characteristics of Tolkien are fussy world building and lack of brevity.

It's bizarre to see people saying "Just because it's set in Middle-earth doesn't mean it has to follow Tolkien's themes!" As if Middle-earth is the 'Marvel universe' or something, as if it's a fictional setting that was built specifically to service a franchise and not the other way around.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

It's bizarre to see people saying "Just because it's set in Middle-earth doesn't mean it has to follow Tolkien's themes!" As if Middle-earth is the 'Marvel universe' or something, as if it's a fictional setting that was built specifically to service a franchise and not the other way around.

That's not surprising, unfortunately. I seriously doubt the majority of those who would buy the game have ever read the books, and many probably haven't bothered with the movies. Thus, they would have only vague notions of what Tolkien was about. If one is unfamiliar with the source material, what is Shadow of Mordor but another hack-and-slash exercise in gore? It would seem the only reason it even had to have anything to do with Tolkien at all was to attract those who did see the PJ films.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

That's not surprising, unfortunately. I seriously doubt the majority of those who would buy the game have ever read the books, and many probably haven't bothered with the movies. Thus, they would have only vague notions of what Tolkien was about.

The odd thing is a lot of people were actually saying they were 'fans' of the books but didn't care how the games etc represented them, which leads me to think that they're probably more fans of the surface details ("Elves are cool") than they are of any of the thematic content.

That's the problem with a lot of Tolkien discourse, I think. It's so muddled between critical thinking and pop-culture-style consumption. I get the impression it's been this way since long before there was anything but the books, though.

[Tar-Jêx]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

The odd thing is a lot of people were actually saying they were 'fans' of the books but didn't care how the games etc represented them, which leads me to think that they're probably more fans of the surface details ("Elves are cool") than they are of any of the thematic content.

That's the problem with a lot of Tolkien discourse, I think. It's so muddled between critical thinking and pop-culture-style consumption. I get the impression it's been this way since long before there was anything but the books, though.

I think that this whole 'fan' business has mainly been going on since the movies started coming out early 2000s. It's a bit silly when someone says they are a fan of the books, but don't care that the game basically just ignores everything they have read for the sake of a fun, but lorebroken, game.

Being a fan of the books means that you care about what happens, and while you can be a fan of both, I find the story of Shadow of Mordor to just be insulting and ungood.

[Zigûr]

Unfortunately I have just learned that a sequel to this game is coming out, which apparently (absurdly) involves the main character making his own Ring (something even Saruman seems to have failed to properly do) and challenging Sauron for supremacy.

Just another piece of consumerist sputum vomited out of the adaptation meat-grinder I suppose.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

Unfortunately I have just learned that a sequel to this game is coming out, which apparently (absurdly) involves the main character making his own Ring (something even Saruman seems to have failed to properly do) and challenging Sauron for supremacy.

Just another piece of consumerist sputum vomited out of the adaptation meat-grinder I suppose.

I'm by no means a gamer, but it seems to me that there would be little, if anything, to set the Middle-earth themed games apart from their competitors. Is there an increased fun-factor for Tolkien fans? Or are those titles purely aimed at drawing sales through the LOTR association?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

Unfortunately I have just learned that a sequel to this game is coming out, which apparently (absurdly) involves the main character making his own Ring (something even Saruman seems to have failed to properly do) and challenging Sauron for supremacy.

Just another piece of consumerist sputum vomited out of the adaptation meat-grinder I suppose.

Here we go again. Cue a bunch of articles explaining how very, very canonical this actually is.