Frodo's change from book to film

[Nerwen]

FerniesApple, the groups "men" and "women" are made up of millions and millions of individuals, with their own personalities, opinions, tastes and interests, so I'd say it's best to avoid making sweeping statements about "what women like" based on what I'd guess is a pretty small sample.

I mean, yes,*some* women (especially teenage girls, which is what I suspect your sample mostly is) have a sort of "thing" for males who seem fragile or "broken"; I suppose it's an equivalent of the damsel-in-distress archetype. But again, that's some women, not "women".

For my part, no, I didn't care for the way the films handled Frodo at all, and to me it suggests that the writers were in fact working from the basic assumption that any man *not* a traditional action hero type must be a total sissy. I don't think they added nuance, I think they removed it.

(As for Bilbo, the new films are all over the map on *his* characterisation.)

[Lotrelf]

I don't know/think/understand too much of this gender issue I have seen both men and women appreciating and disliking Frodo, both in the books and the movies. Movies did take away a lot of "real" Frodo. Whenever I watch the films after reading the books, I get a complete different image of all the characters. The character I see in the films are totally different people. Still there are Gandalf and Sam who are still very close to the characters in the book. Movies showed Frodo very much weak and defenseless, as has been said here, and that's true. I also feel an emptiness in his character. Wood hadn't read the books, so he never came to know the real Frodo. That went against book Frodo terribly.

Originally Posted by FerniesApple

I think they chose not to show him fighting on Weathertop so that Aragorn would look more like a protecting influence, all the Hobbits are portrayed as being frightened by the Ringwraiths, not just Frodo.

if they try to make Frodo too assertive too soon it takes away from his story arc in my opinion. Anyway Frodos strength is never in use of arms but interior courage, and you dont need to wave a sword around to show courage.

Hmmm... But I feel Professor Tolkien showed Frodo's different side was there. When all the hobbits in the book were frightened, it was Frodo who striked the Wraith. In the Barrow-Downs, it was him who saved his friends with TB's help. None of this would have seemed far fetched in the movies had they shown it. They chose otherwise. Aragorn was there to protect them in the book too, and Frodo's defense nowhere takes away anything from Aragorn.

[FerniesApple]

I dont think Wood not having read the books had anything to do with it

[Lotrelf]

Originally Posted by FerniesApple

I dont think Wood not having read the books had anything to do with it

It had a lot to do with it. Not having read the book didn't give him the idea of real Frodo, and the script he was given wasn't about Frodo at all. Had he read them, he could make up for many things on his own.

[FerniesApple]

I dont agree, thats silly, of course the script was about Frodo

[Lotrelf]

Originally Posted by FerniesApple

I dont agree, thats silly, of course the script was about Frodo

You think so? 'cause I don't. Tolkien's Frodo is completely a different character than Jackson's Frodo. Movies stripped most of the qualities he showed in the books. His wisdom, selflessness, will to sacrifice himself etc.were missing from the movies. Gollum's redemption, Saruman's death were not added at all. I'm rambling badly, I'll explain better later. Cheers!

[FerniesApple]

Originally Posted by Lotrelf

You think so? 'cause I don't. Tolkien's Frodo is completely a different character than Jackson's Frodo. Movies stripped most of the qualities he showed in the books. His wisdom, selflessness, will to sacrifice himself etc.were missing from the movies. Gollum's redemption, Saruman's death were not added at all. I'm rambling badly, I'll explain better later. Cheers!

Nope. I think people (in general) are mistaking Elijah Woods facial expressions as evidence that he is somehow lesser in character. He showed selflessness and courage throughout the films, maybe it was hard to recognize because he has quite an innocent baby face which lends itself to looking hurt and bewildered. Just imaging that it wasnt Wood but another actor with exactly the same dialogue, imagine its James McAvoy someone a bit more masculine looking maybe, I dont think it was a problem of the things he said but more his acting style that puts people off. Anyway thats my opinion take it or leave it.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Lotrelf

The character I see in the films are totally different people. Still there are Gandalf and Sam who are still very close to the characters in the book.

The issue might be that Jackson lacks the ability to be subtle. Frodo's character can't be just a little less heroic than Aragorn's - or heroic in a non-sword swaggering kind of way - but is then portrayed as whiny and ineffectual.

Anyway, I don't think that Gandalf's character was portrayed any better - his confusion before entering the Mines, his begging of Saruman and Aragorn, his fearful look when dehorsed by the Witch-King...If only that were the low water mark, but then we got the Hobbit.

Sam's portrayal closer than that of the other two, except when he abandons Frodo (temporarily) on Cirith Ungol.

[Lotrelf]

Originally Posted by alatar

The issue might be that Jackson lacks the ability to be subtle. Frodo's character can't be just a little less heroic than Aragorn's - or heroic in a non-sword swaggering kind of way - but is then portrayed as whiny and ineffectual.

Anyway, I don't think that Gandalf's character was portrayed any better - his confusion before entering the Mines, his begging of Saruman and Aragorn, his fearful look when dehorsed by the Witch-King...If only that were the low water mark, but then we got the Hobbit.

Sam's portrayal closer than that of the other two, except when he abandons Frodo (temporarily) on Cirith Ungol.

I agree. But Jackson lacks to be subtle? He has been subtle in other things. never mind. Frodo is certainly portrayed in an ineffetual way. He seems to be in action only in the first movie and rest he has to depend upon Sam. He does so in the book too, but there you know the struggle he's going through.
Gandalf is far better than Frodo. In the movies you know, like books, without his comeback, things would have been in vain. Sam's portrayal is good. I loved him both in the movies and the books. Book Sam is more humble and noble, his behaviour with Gollum in the books is much better than in the movies. It's only Frodo who's screwed up. Faramir is redeemed in the extended TTT.

[FerniesApple]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

FerniesApple, the groups "men" and "women" are made up of millions and millions of individuals, with their own personalities, opinions, tastes and interests, so I'd say it's best to avoid making sweeping statements about "what women like" based on what I'd guess is a pretty small sample.

I mean, yes,*some* women (especially teenage girls, which is what I suspect your sample mostly is) have a sort of "thing" for males who seem fragile or "broken"; I suppose it's an equivalent of the damsel-in-distress archetype. But again, that's some women, not "women".

For my part, no, I didn't care for the way the films handled Frodo at all, and to me it suggests that the writers were in fact working from the basic assumption that any man *not* a traditional action hero type must be a total sissy. I don't think they added nuance, I think they removed it.

(As for Bilbo, the new films are all over the map on *his* characterisation.)

thats rather a sweeping statement about teenage girls

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by FerniesApple

thats rather a sweeping statement about teenage girls

What, you don't like the bit where I make a concession to your point of view? Okay, I'll take it back then.

[FerniesApple]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

What, you don't like the bit where I make a concession to your point of view? Okay, I'll take it back then.

No I didnt like it. It was rather patronizing. So yeah take it back.