Unusual question?

[Faramir Jones]

Originally Posted by Lotrelf

I don't know if I really have fallen into the danger you're talking about, Faramir Jones. I had seen that in the first Hobbit movie and when I read the book, I wondered if I missed something. That made me start the thread. Nothing more than that.

You're right there, Lotrelf, for which I apologise.

You and others may be interested in knowing that Tolkien explicitly made a major character vegetarian: Beren. According to Chapter 19 of The Silmarillion, for 4 years after his other 11 companions (including his father) had been killed by Sauron, he survived in Dorthonion

but he became the friend of birds and beasts, and they aided him, and did not betray him, and from that time forth he ate no flesh nor slew any living thing that was not in the service of Morgoth. (My emphasis) (The Silmarillion, (London: George Allen and Unwin, 1979), p. 196.

It appears that Beren's decision was due to military necessity, rather than any ethical or moral objections to eating the flesh of animals.

Perhaps Sauron had been using, in his campaign against Beren and his companions, the meat eating habits of the latter against them, in order to gain intelligence. An argument by him might have gone something like this:

These Elves and Men go on a lot about me and others being 'evil', and they being 'good'. If that's the case, why do they kill and eat your relatives? (Points at one animal) You know what happened to your uncle last week, reduced to a heap of picked-over bones. (Points to another animal) And what about your cousin? If this is how they behave, why should any of you help them at all? If you help me, I promise that they will not bother you or your families ever again.

What do people think?

[IxnaY AintsaY]

Originally Posted by Faramir Jones

"... and from that time forth he ate no flesh nor slew any living thing that was not in the service of Morgoth."

Hence his famous sobriquet in latter days, Beren Goblin-eater.

Perhaps Sauron had been using, in his campaign against Beren and his companions, the meat eating habits of the latter against them, in order to gain intelligence. An argument by him might have gone something like this:

These Elves and Men go on a lot about me and others being 'evil', and they being 'good'. If that's the case, why do they kill and eat your relatives? (Points at one animal) You know what happened to your uncle last week, reduced to a heap of picked-over bones. (Points to another animal) And what about your cousin? If this is how they behave, why should any of you help them at all? If you help me, I promise that they will not bother you or your families ever again.

It seems to me Sauron's minions were more likely to kill animals cruelly and for no reason than even Men were. But I suppose he could have made the rather weak argument that many of his folk were as likely to eat man-flesh or indulge in cannibalism as they were to fix up, say, veal parmigiana.

[Leaf]

Originally Posted by IxnaY AintsaY

Hence his famous sobriquet in latter days, Beren Goblin-eater.

Ha, that´s funny. I´ve never read the sentence this way. But regarding those animals in the service of Morgoth, are they off limits for him aswell? I like the notion of Beren scouting the woods to find this one evil eyed hawk, or grim badger (which are obviously under Morgoth´s command) he can digest without feeling the least bit guilty about it.

[Alfirin]

Hawk actually supposedly tastes terrible (don't know about badger).

On the other hand, there are people in our world who eat wolf by choice, so that could be a good source of guilt free flesh. I imagine it tastes like dog (which a lot of people eat), but gamier).

It's a long shot but since Beren has this no kill policy and the animals help him, I wonder if they also might provide him with no kill non vegetable material (vegetarian is not vegan). The birds bringing him any eggs the laid that did not hatch (or even bringing ALL of their eggs and letting Beren candle them, so he could eat the non fertile ones fresh) Or even (though this is a little silly) Mother deer coming to him and standing still after they had suckled their fawns, that Beren might milk them of their excess for his own sustenance.

[Smug the Fabulous]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

It's a long shot but since Beren has this no kill policy and the animals help him, I wonder if they also might provide him with no kill non vegetable material (vegetarian is not vegan). The birds bringing him any eggs the laid that did not hatch (or even bringing ALL of their eggs and letting Beren candle them, so he could eat the non fertile ones fresh) Or even (though this is a little silly) Mother deer coming to him and standing still after they had suckled their fawns, that Beren might milk them of their excess for his own sustenance.

Well, it could be that or Beren still eats meat but he just says the animals he killed were servants of Morgoth. So one day, Beren is feeling peckish when sees a chicken and thus makes quick sport of it with his sword.

MAN: I thought you did not eat the flesh or slay any living thing that was not in the service of Morgoth?

BEREN: I do not.

MAN: Then why did you kill that chicken?

BEREN: Oh...er...well, you see, erm...Morgoth...corrupted...this...chicken. Yes, that's it. And we can't have evil chickens in times like these.

MAN: ...right.

[IxnaY AintsaY]

Originally Posted by Leaf

Ha, that´s funny. I´ve never read the sentence this way.

I try to let not mere syntax stand in the way of a quip good. Or a one bad, for that matter.