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#1 | |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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#2 |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 112
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The fate of the Ring was the only thing that mattered. Aragorn could have declared that as of now he makes all the decisions and will lead the Company elsewhere, and not through Moria. He may have had no legal power to have Gandalf arrested at the gate of Moria, but that would have changed once he was sworn in as King of Gondor.
Last edited by Moonraker; 08-02-2014 at 03:45 PM. Reason: chan |
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#3 |
Shade of Carn Dūm
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Henneth Annūn, Ithilien
Posts: 462
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Even if they wanted to, none of them would be able to arrest Gandalf. None were forced to follow Gandalf.
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"For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously!" - G.S.; F. Nietzsche |
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#4 |
Dead Serious
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Let's imagine, for one absurdly out-of-character second, that Aragorn WOULD have considered "arresting Gandalf" and/or asserting himself as the mutinous new leader of the company. Even had he already become King of Gondor and Arnor, or had the quest somehow waited until he was, this would still, as Aiwendil so succinctly put it, none of the authority required to arrest Gandalf.
Authority, never mind the actual ability. Gandalf was a subject of neither the Kingdom of Arnor nor Gondor, over which Aragorn's writ extended. He was, in point of fact, an emissary of the Valar, which, if we continue this line of thought, still leaves him a foreign national--and a foreign national rather in the diplomatic service. Beyond this, when at the walls of Moria, the company was not in the realms of Gondor or Arnor. Depending on where one draws the exact line, they were either still in Hollin or they were across the threshold into Moria. If one takes the first position, which I incline towards, then they were in what was essentially noman's land. I seem to recall it being suggested (I cannot recall the text--possibly the Epilogue?) that, by his marriage to Arwen, Aragorn's heirs would inherit the remaining tracts of land still belonging to the High Elves in Middle-earth, namely Lindon, Rivendell, and Eregion (all under the possession of the House of Finwė, which would be remain solely represented in her heirs after the passing of Elrond, Galadriel, and the eventually death/passing of Elladan and Elrohir). However, this had not happened at the time of the Fellowship. Hollin was still, at that time, a vacant kingdom under either the nominal lordship of the Heir of Celebrimbor (presumably Elrond, the next-of-kin as the nearest descendent of Fingolfin, who was Fėanor's heir after the exhaustion of his own line) or would have been kingdomless, but part of the greater domains of the High King of Eldar (depending on the tradition one accepts for Gil-galad's parentage, either Elrond or Galadriel). Either way, it is clear from the officially defined boundaries of Arnor--themselves not set until half an Age after the fall of Eregion, that Hollin was considered beyond-the-borders of Arnor, and thus outside the law of her king. If, however, we stretch the borders of Khazad-dūm beyond the doors to include the doorstep, Aragorn is STILL not king of that land, and even less likely to rule it, since I don't think he was going to be a polygamous king with a second consort wedded to the only daughter of Thorin III (and that's assuming that Dwarves can inherit through the female line--people seem to assume this of Fķli and Kķli, but I don't recall it ever saying in any text that Thorin Oakenshield's sister-sons were the Heirs of the Durin after him). Gimli, perhaps, as the ranking Dwarf (in all Moria, though they did not know it) could have done so, but we all know that he was on Gandalf's side for going IN to Moria.
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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#5 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 112
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This charge would be far fetched to execute, especially if the Company did just fine in Moria, but nevertheless that is what the Moonraker likes, to stretch the realms of possibility to the limits. Last edited by Moonraker; 08-02-2014 at 04:41 PM. |
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#6 | |||||||
Shade of Carn Dūm
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Henneth Annūn, Ithilien
Posts: 462
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"For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously!" - G.S.; F. Nietzsche |
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#7 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 112
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I cannot imagine Elrond supporting the road through Moria either. I seem to imagine him saying something like, ''I do not call this good counsel. Moria is a dark and unknown quantity to us, and we have no certainty that there is a way out of that accursed realm''. Sounds similar to what Aragorn said. If I was just an ordinary man or hobbit, I would not have followed Gandalf into Moria. Last edited by Moonraker; 08-02-2014 at 05:57 PM. |
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#8 | |||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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As was established by Elrond, no one was under any obligation to do anything except Frodo himself, so I don't see how trying to force the issue by coercing Gandalf would have achieved anything. Wouldn't Aragorn "arresting" Gandalf (as implausible as the notion is in itself) have completely contradicted the fact that in the end it was Frodo who really had the final say in what happened?
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"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. |
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#9 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 112
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Was Frodo really in charge of the fate of the Ring? He was only the Ring bearer, not the leader of the Company. Also Elrond said other members of the Company could handle the Ring, if in great need. I don't recall Gandalf saying, ''Let the Ring bearer decide'', as in the movies? |
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#10 | ||||||||||||||
Shade of Carn Dūm
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Henneth Annūn, Ithilien
Posts: 462
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You say that, "the most important decision made as to how the Ring may be protected." Yet Aragorn seems to be placing his concern for Gandalf over the Ring in this instance when it concerned a possible route through Moria. Quote:
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"Wolves or Balrog? I'd rather take my chances with that Balrog. To Moria!" ![]() Quote:
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"For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously!" - G.S.; F. Nietzsche |
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#11 | |
A Northern Soul
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
Posts: 1,847
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An absurd idea; moving this to N&N. Not sure anyone should get too worked up about this.
Please keep in mind: Quote:
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...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art. |
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