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#1 | |
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Consider the circumstances leading Fingolfin to despair. From a Wikipedia summary:
Quote:
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The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.' |
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#2 | |
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Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,519
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It was suicidal, but it was not suicide. It was heroic, but more so desperate. I think it can be all at the same time, which is exactly why this is one of my favourite bits of The Sil.
For Lotrelf, here is the description of the duel: Quote:
EDIT: xed with Squatter EDIT2: Finished copying the passage.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 07-06-2014 at 07:12 PM. |
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#3 |
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Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,515
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I concur with Squatter's use of the word "fey" in this instance, a concept (O.E. faege) that is an outcome of "weird" or fate, that an Anglo-Saxon warrior like Beowulf would certainly understand. To become fey is to foresee one's own death and against all counsel seek that death, usually in battle against impossible odds, and die gloriously.
And like Squatter inferred, this fey death of Fingolfin is a pagan concept that would not be considered suicide by Fingolfin's peers and family; on the contrary, as Tolkien portrayed it, the high king's death is given the laudatory verse Anglo-Saxons reserved for their greatest heroes.
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
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#4 |
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Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 36
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Fingy was beside himself with rage and grief, he was so mad and heart broke that he wasn't thinking clear. Ive seen alot of people get so mad they do stuff that they normally wouldn't do. I have been in that situation myself. This is the case here he was so mad his "eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar". He was in such a rage that the only thing he could think about was hurting Morgoth anyway he could. I agree with Inziladun. Eomer was in a similar situation on the Pelennor, the thing that brought him out of it was seeing Aragon's standard with the fleet. He was already arraying his troops in a shield wall to fight to the last on foot when the black ships came. I dont think either of them wanted to die, but that wasn't a concern. The main thing that they both wanted was to hurt the enemy as much as possible.
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Fingolfin.....He passed over Dor-nu-fauglith like wind amid dust, and all that beheld his onslaught fled in amaze, thinking Orome himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar. Last edited by Yregwyn; 07-16-2014 at 01:00 PM. |
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#5 | |
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Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
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I put Fingolfin's attack on Morgoth in the same vein as that of the Rohirrim at the Battle of the Pelennor in ROTK.
There Éomer, seeing the apparent death of his uncle and sister, Quote:
In both instances there is a moment of despair, followed by a white-hot rage to avenge, and though I don't think dying in the act was the preferred outcome, neither Fingolfin nor Éomer were concerned at all for their safety.
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#6 | |||
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Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,519
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Quote:
But yes, that's the way I see it as well.Quote:
But here, judging at least from your first paragraph in the quote, do you think that the Christian part is really present to such etent in Fingolfin's challenge? Do you really think his lack of faith was a failure? I think that the northern spirit far outrules the Christian aspect in this scenario. I don't think Fingolfin's act or mood was failure, nor do I think that there is any hint of condemnation of them in the story that would make the reader think that way. Quote:
PS: I have edited the remainder of the text into my previous post, for anyone who wants to read the passage.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#7 | |
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Spectre of Decay
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Yes it was, which does slightly undermine some of my arguments. D'oh!
Quote:
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Man kenuva métim' andúne? |
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#8 |
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Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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Well, Legate, that's a valid point; but it's a bit hard to square with Tolkien's stern criticisms of both old-Beowulf and Beorhtnoth, for suicidal glory-seeking which resulted in disaster for those whom they had a duty to rule and protect.
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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