WW CVI: Tol-in-Westeros Game Thread

[Nerwen]

Death of an Imp

#33. skip believes we should focus on Lion-hunting rather then Bear-hunting.

#34. skip suggests the Targaryen reveal: "Isn't a known innocent much more useful to the village than an unknown hunter who may take anyone with him?”

#35. Lommy says “that’s up to the hunter, I guess”.

#36. Volo says, "I have a cunning plan! How about we all reveal as a Targaryen!”

#38. Mac explains in some detail what is wrong with skip’s plan, which he describes as “crazy". It is in the course of this that Mac makes his own, now infamous “reveal”. (In context, this is to make a point about fake reveals.)

#44. skip disputes Mac's judgement of his plan, arguing that he can’t see why anyone would counter-reveal, that the Targaryen would be protected for a Night, thus losing the Lions a kill, and that, essentially, we’re better off *without* a non-logical Hunter. (This last seems to be the basic assumption from which he’s working.)

#46. WythDryden is suspicious of skip's initial post, then edits this to say he has changed his mind because of "posts agreeing with the strategy”.
*Shrugs* Newbie. Who knows?

#47. Kit points out that the Bear would still get a Night-kill, that the Targaryen would have no special knowledge and that a known innocent is not all that helpful in a large village.

#51. Zil says a revealed hunter is useful only later in the game. "If the hunter revealed now, they could just bide their time and get him whenever."

#56. Rikae says that in fact (counter to skip's assertion, “pretty much anyone" might potentially reveal as the Targaryen.

#66. skip (vote-post). skip doesn’t see why anyone would fake-reveal, as "the real Targaryan would start to wonder”. Replying to Zil, argues:

Originally Posted by skip

Well, that they could get him whenever isn't quite true. As long as the Ranger is about, a known Ordo should count on protection every other night and going after the revealed Targaryan would be a 50/50 risk of getting a blocked kill.

But enough of that, we have to trust the Targaryan's own judgement on this.

Then votes Gil-galad (first vote of the Day)

Originally Posted by skip

He talks a lot but it's mostly echoes of what others have already said and he's careful not to be controversial. He argues whether we should go after the bear or the Lions which imo is a pretty moot point at present. This makes me suspect he's throwing out smokescreens.

#70.

Originally Posted by Mac

Well, maybe. The numbers may be on your side, but it would also mean we'd be without a proper analyzable wolf kill for two Nights. That doesn't help us.

Given how vehemently Mac had argued against the plan, this seems like he’s semi-caving in very suddenly, and with little cause. Odd.

#72. Gil comments that he had had a feeling he would be voted, and describes himself as a “safe lynch”.

#75. Rikae says wondering is in fact all the real Targaryen would be able to do in the case of a false-reveal, and goes on to add:

Originally Posted by Rikae

Tsk tsk - trying to neutralize our hunter for no good reason (a known ordo on Day 1? Pretty useless. A known ordo late in the game could be very valuable, as could a hunter kill) and now making the easiest of all easy votes?

It is from this point that the suspicion starts to build around skip.

#76. Wilwa reminisces about the time an *ordo* outed her as the hunter by false revealing, says reveals can’t always be trusted and that an early Targaryen reveal “wouldn’t be that beneficial”.

#81. skip says this ordo was in fact himself.

#82. Lottie makes a suspicion list, in which she says of skip:

I don't like his vote. Like Rikae said, it's a easy vote, and looks more like a wolf trying for an easy Day 1 lynch than an innocent with a genuine suspicion.

#82. Lottie votes skip.

Tally: Gil-galad 1, skip 1.

#84. Sally votes Lottie.

#87. Boro describes skip's vote as "an early random vote that looks innocent”. Goes on to vote Zil.

#88. Kitanna further disputes skip's plan (replying to skip at #66).

Originally Posted by Kit

This is assuming the known ordo/Targaryan can survive through the off night. I agree with Zil. Right now there is no reason for the hunter to reveal. I'm not sure why skip thinks having the hunter step forward is good. We have a known innocent who knows as much as every ordo in this game which at this point is nothing.

#91. Wilwa makes a suspicion list:

Originally Posted by Wilwa

Skip: I really don't like his suggestion about the hunter revealing. Having a known innocent isn't all that useful right now, at least not compared to how it could be in a few more days. Also not a fan of his vote, but really Day 1 votes kinda always suck.

#95. Zil (replying to skip at #66).

Originally Posted by Zil

Than again, I think the ranger ought to be more concerned with protecting possible Seers, rather than the Hunter!
And I still say a revealed Hunter would be more damaging to the Lions later.

#96. Mac makes a list, saying he has “no clue either way” about skip "said plenty, but I don't know what to do with him”.

#99. Kit votes skip.

Originally Posted by Kit

Not as random as I thought it would be, but built on flimsy reasoning. Skip has been the only one to really draw my attention. His belief that having a known innocent in exchange for a secret hunter doesn't feel right. It feels like he's pushing for something that could and probably will be harmful for the village by drawing ranger resources to protect someone who has no knowledge of anyone else's role and therefore their only benefit is being a known innocent for a day or two.

Tally: Gil-galad1, skip2, Lottie 1, Zil 1

#105. Lommy makes a list, describing skip as "notable: easy vote (I feel like Gil and Skip himself are easy Day1 lynch targets because they think fast and sometimes a bit kneejerkily and are active enough to draw attention)."

#107. G55 makes a list: "skip - I don't agree with what he's said, and I don't like his vote, but I can understand his vote. At this point I think it's much easier to jump on him than claim that he jumped on Gil. So semi-vote candidate."

#110. Wilwa votes skip. "Because his ideas about the hunter were odd and I don't think they were really in our best interest. Not a lot to go on, I know, but my best hunch right now.”

Tally: Gil-galad1, skip3, Lottie 1, Zil 1

#110. Zil votes skip, as he "can't see anyone else who pings the radar as much”.

Tally: Gil-galad1, skip4, Lottie 1, Zil 1

#116.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Iiiinteresting!

What the ??? at this bandwagon?!

Also anyone else notice that the second and the third voter (Lottie and Sally) voted the one that had voted before them. Weird.

This is where the backlash against the skipwaggon starts.

#117. G55 says, "I can see why skip is suspicious, but I'm rather baffled at how centred the votes are around him. I don't like it. Seems too easy for... certain individuals.” Votes Mac.

#118. Nog reacts to G55’s post at #107.

Originally Posted by Nog

Are you truly saying that "it's much easier to jump on him so I'd consider doing it"?

On a related issue - I do not think a Skip-lion would have proposed openly for the Targaryen to reveal... a lion should not be controversial but rather quire careful on the early stages when the lynches can be pretty random (D1 especially).

#121.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Skip is fishy, but he is always fishy (sorry! ). Why he might be a wolf: his vote was an easy one, and combined with the fishyness, it's not a very trustworthy combination. Why he might be innocent: sudden bandwagons against someone are usually against an innocent, my experience tells me. Wolves hardly go down without an objection. Then again, not sure if that rule applies in this big a village.

Of the others that have been voted this far, I'm not very suspicious of Inzil, Gil or Mac, and Lottie isn't on the top of my list either.

Currently thinking about voting Galadriel or Wilwa. Could also go for any of the under the radar club, or even Lottie or Skip if the other options are bad.

(This post x’d with #118.)

#122.G55 answers Nog at #188.

Originally Posted by G55

No, as in I can see where thes suspicion is coming from, and I agree with a good deal of it, but I'm also wary that a lot of it seems to have been spoonfed somehow. As in, I think the points against skip are quite true, but they came seemingly out of nowhere, making you think like you've felt this way all the time. Except that I'm aware that I did not come up with all that on my own and I'm being spoonfed suspicion.

#123. Rikae comments on G55’s vote-post: "Offhandedly cast suspicion at Skip voters, then make an unexplained vote for someone else?"

#124.

Originally Posted by Greenie

As others have pointed out, this was a very easy vote, and the reasoning looks a little far-fetched. But it's also Day 1, and I seem to recall an innocent Skip being lynched for stuff like this before, so I'd prefer to go for someone else.

#126. (replying to Rikae at #123), G55 says "I think I've defended skip more than cast suspicion on him, and b) the vote is hardly unexplained.”

#128. Replying to G55, Rikae says she meant she was casting suspicion on skip-voters, but now says they’re worrying her too:

Originally Posted by Rikae

I expressed my initial suspicion partly to test the waters, though I was considering voting him, it makes me uneasy when people agree with me too quickly. I mean, no one was making any accusations, and then all of a sudden several people jump on the first thing resembling a case, without any further analysis? Fishy.

Votes Wilwa.

#129. Greeniethinks G55 is “a little off” for apparently trying to cast suspicion on both skip and his voters.
(this post x’d with #127.)

#131. Mac says, "While I'm not feeling particularly well about Skip myself, I do not like that bandwaggon at all."

#132.Enca votes Nogrod.

#133. Eönwë votes skip, saying, "At the moment, the thing that stands out most to me is Skip's encouragement of a Targ reveal”.

Tally: Gil-galad1, skip 5, Lottie 1, Zil 1, Mac 1, Wilwa 1, Nog1

#134. Volo says, "I agree that at first smelling there's a nasty odor to the skip votes.”

#135. Wyth says:

Originally Posted by Wyth

I was initially going to vote on Skip just because he seemed to stand out. But again, my ideas about it were swayed with how bringing this much attention to himself would not be good strategy. Or would double psychology here be a good defense? Either way, I'm not so sure.

Votes Mac.

Tally: Gil-galad1, skip 5, Lottie 1, Zil 1, Mac 2, Wilwa 1, Nog1

#136.

Originally Posted by Eomer

We got a bandwagon, baybay!

But given how many WW games there have been (this must be the 8 millionth or something, right) I have to think that the villains won't have voted for Skip like that. It just looks too bad. They would be smarter than that... I think.

#138. Mac votes Zil.

#139. Nog believes there is at least one lion in the Skip-waggon.

#140.

Originally Posted by Gil

I feel that Skips poor choice of words when accusing me did lead to the bandwagon against him. I know the feeling, I have done it countless times.

Votes Boro.

#147. Lommy votes Wilwa.

Tally: Gil-galad1, skip 5, Lottie 1, Zil 2, Mac 2, Wilwa 2, Nog1, Boro1

#151. Eomer is "leaning toward lynching Wilwa rather than Skip”, thinking the latter is "more of a wrong-place-wrong-time kind of villager/guest”. Is “very curious about the bandwagon.

#154. Greenie "would prefer Wilwa over Skip, but Mac over Wilwa.”

#159. Greenie votes Mac.

Tally: Gil-galad1, skip 5, Lottie 1, Zil 2, Mac 3, Wilwa 2, Nog1, Boro1

#161. Nogrod votes Mac.

Tally: Gil-galad1, skip 5, Lottie 1, Zil 2, Mac 4, Wilwa 2, Nog1, Boro1

#162. Eomer says, “the Mac-voters, G55 and Wyth, are also very curious…”

#163. Volo votes G55.

#166. Eomer votes Zil, saying he is "smart enough to deflect any complaints about bandwagon-jumping”.

Tally: Gil-galad1, skip 5, Lottie 1, Zil 3, Mac 4, Wilwa 2, Nog1, Boro1


Thoughts. Well! I agree with Eomer both bandwagons are quite curious. One conclusion we can draw is that the Skip-waggon was not a simple attempt to save a baddie, as only two other players (Zil and Mac) were in any danger, and their bandwaggons (if you can call the Zil-votes that) arose after the Skip-waggon. Undoubtedly, skip did plenty to make himself suspicious, yet the general pattern of “everyone jumps on skip", followed by “everyone denounces everyone jumping on skip” is very odd. I mean, yes, that is how it works with bandwagons, yet I’ve never seen such a sudden switching on and off of mass-suspicion.

Most noteworthy:

Rikae was the first to express actual suspicion on skip, then later got cold feet, suspected people for suspecting him and voted someone else. (Bear in mind that known innocent G55 did much the same thing.)

Zil and Kit kept on arguing against skip'splan after there seemed to me much point to doing so– it was clear by then that it wasn’t going to gain any support. (Mind you skip just wouldn’t back down– people can develop tunnel-vision in such cases.) Zil's vote (or the reasons for it) also strikes me as a little too easy.

Mac, as noted, suddenly seems almost to agree with skip's plan for no real reason. Why? A baddie suddenly seeing a chance to dispose of the hunter?

Lommy casts suspicion on the skip-voters, while still leaving herself the option of voting him (see #121).


EDIT:X’d since my last post. Really. This took ages and for some reason I can’t refresh. So I have no idea what’s happened in the meantime yet. Just letting you all know.
Edit 2: clarification.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

The band-wagon on Skip gives me a bad feeling, was his poor reasoning really enough to garner suspicion or did it give an opening for the lions to start an easy vote. It was a day 1 vote after all, which are flimsy at best.

The order was Lottie, Kit, Wilwa, me, and then Eönwë to finish it. I think I was the first to cast any suspicion on skip for his plan of the Hunter revealing.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Funny thought - perhaps the bear tried to kill a lion, and the lions tried to kill the bear?

That brings a question: what happens if both are successful, ie the Bear goes after a Lion and the Lions target the Bear? MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction)?

Originally Posted by Encaitare

I've just caught up on the thread and need to go to bed soon, so no time for a detailed response. But I do have a strong feeling that one Lion was part of the bandwagon on Skip yesterDay. In order of their voting, that was Loslote, Kitanna, Wilwa, Inzil, and Eonwe. This is mostly based on gut feeling, but I don't think a Lion would be one of the first to vote, so probably not Lottie. So that leaves Kitanna, Inzil, and Eonwe. I'll review the thread tomorrow to likely decide among these three.

I think it's very likely a Lion was in the skip-wagon. When I saw the voting yesterDay. I thought Wilwa's looked the worst , but now I might say Kit. Being in the midst of a bandwagon could be seen as safest for a baddie.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Again - how do we choose between those two? How do we tell? And in any case, I'd say hunting the lions is our first priority since we win once all the lions are dead. It doesn't get much more straightforward than that, does it? Unless, of course, we at some point have very clear evidence of someone being the bear and no idea about the lions, it might be worth a lynch, but at the moment, spending a lot of time and energy on wondering about the bear is probably not worth our while.

Also, the Bear is every bit as much a threat to the Lions as to everyone else. The alignment of the Lovers is fluid, and the Lions are fixed. That alone should make the Lions priority.

[Encaitare]

As I said before, I strongly feel that one Lion (not more) was in on the Skip bandwagon yesterDay. Loslote was first, so I don't think it's her. Wilwa could have been suspicious, having voted third of five, but turned out to be the Seer. So now to focus on the posting history of the remaining three.

Kitanna
On page 1, she only made a joke post. On page 2, she reiterated what some others had said, that she doesn't think targeting the Lovers should be a priority, because hopefully the Lovers will also be targeting Lions. She disagreed with Skip that a Targaryen reveal would be a good strategy. She also stated that work had been crazy busy, so her vote would likely be random.

On page 3, she agreed with Inzil that a Targaryen reveal would be better for later in the game. She voted for Skip, acknowledging that it wasn't much to go on, but that she found the push for the reveal to be troublesome. That was it for her posting on Day 1.

On page 5, Day 2, she thinks that the Lovers chose to target Wilwa because they thought she was a Lion, trying to steer conversation toward the Lovers. She notes how Inzil brought up that the lovers would have to take sides. She finds [b]Thinlomien[b] and Nerwen to be somewhat suspicious. She thinks Mac's fake reveal is either a distraction of someone who is "guilty," or that he's "a crazy Ordo". She says Volo's idea to forge an alliance with the Lovers makes sense, but that the Lovers are also a threat and there's no real way to make an alliance. She agrees with what Gil-Galad says, and says:

Originally posted by Kitanna
I'm waffling between hunting bears and hunting lions. My gut says lions because if we can eliminate that threat, who cares if the lovers live until the end?

She doesn't find Lottie or Sally suspicious. She points out a line of Wilwa's that she thinks could have made the Lovers nervous, where Wilwa said that if the Seer could reveal both a Bear and a Lion, it would be better to lynch the Bear first. She thinks Wilwa dreamed of either Mac, Boro, Rikae, herself, or Nerwen, but personally finds Mac suspicious. She notes that Eomer's push to find the lions could just as easily be a lion's tactic.

She later talks about G55 and her exchange with Eomer. She finds Enca's (my) response to Eomer to look strange given G55's innocence. Nogrod feels suspicious of G55, and Kit thinks that G55's strong endorsement of Wilwa could have been seen as a Seer hint.

On page 6, Kit and Eomer had an exchange where they both noted my "chummy" behavior with Eomer. Kitanna reiterates that she thinks the Lions targeted G55 because they got Seer vibes from her endorsement of Wilwa.

That's it up until now.

Final thoughts on Kitanna: Although she was the second vote for Skip, effectively starting the bandwagon, I think her reasoning is sound throughout. She acknowledges that a Day 1 vote naturally doesn't have much to support it, but I can see why she voted the way she did. I don't find Kit to be terribly suspicious at this point, although her phrasing "who cares if the lovers live until the end?" is a little odd. I'm leaning toward Kitanna being innocent at this time.

No more time at present to do a breakdown of Inzil and Eomer. (EDIT: This should have said Eonwe, not Eomer, as it was Eonwe who cast the final vote for skip.) Hopefully I will have time to do so before the voting deadline.

[Nogrod]

I do agree with Encai that Kit has played very reasonably and her vote for Skip could be one that an innocent might have made if forced to get off at that point of the game. But this is interesting:

Originally Posted by Encaitare

On page 3, she agreed with Inzil that a Targaryen reveal would be better for later in the game.
On page 5, Day 2, she thinks that the Lovers chose to target Wilwa because they thought she was a Lion, trying to steer conversation toward the Lovers. She notes how Inzil brought up that the lovers would have to take sides.

I mean she doesn't seem to back others viewpoints or agree a lot but does that with Inzil a couple of times. Okay, that's based on Encai's analysis and she might have not reported everything (on purpose or without any) but that kind of thing actually does raise an eyebrow or two - especially as they both voted Skip, and Inzil was suspected & voted himself...

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I think it's very likely a Lion was in the skip-wagon. When I saw the voting yesterDay. I thought Wilwa's looked the worst , but now I might say Kit. Being in the midst of a bandwagon could be seen as safest for a baddie.

So, you thought the wagon looked bad at the time, and then you joined it? Ok...

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rikae

So, you thought the wagon looked bad at the time, and then you joined it? Ok...

I have to point out that I was the first to cast suspicion on skip, even though I was the first vote.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rikae

So, you thought the wagon looked bad at the time, and then you joined it? Ok...

Precious!

Even if you Inzil actually voiced a suspicion on Skip the first (I haven't checked that but have no reason to believe you'd lie here as it could be easily checked by anyone), this is an interesting phrasing by you:

Originally Posted by Inzil

Being in the midst of a bandwagon could be seen as safest for a baddie

And then you kind of do exactly that...

The question this is begging then is, would you have been that careless on your phrasing if you were a lion?

[Eönwë]

So, I'd just managed to get caught up, but then my internet died suddenly. Back now, and reading.

[Macalaure]

Reading along, thinking along, and replying to some stuff people said about me.

Originally Posted by Inzil

He and I have a history of suspecting one another (usually falsely)

That's not making me any less suspicious of you. At all.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Then, looking through the votes yesterDay, I noticed something else interesting. After Mac made his famous "the numbers may be on your side" comment, he accumulated a couple of votes. He still wasn't the top candidate by any means, but he had to leave right as he got his second vote, and there were enough people left that the lynch could easily have swung in his favor while he was gone. If Mac were a lion who had made a legitimate slip, he could well have felt that he was in real danger of being lynched - but he doesn't vote the leading candidate at the time. Instead, he gives a second vote to Zil, who was not really in danger of being lynched, which makes Mac's vote essentially a throw-away

I had two votes at the time, and you say yourself that there were enough votes left that I could've been lynched. I gave Inzil the second vote as well, so it was clearly not a throw-away. I could've voted for Skip, but I didn't suspect him particularly, and the bandwaggon looked sinister. Among the people with one vote at the time, Inzil looked best to me.

Originally Posted by Loslote

His interactions with Wytherkins strike me as hugely concerning, since he's basically poking a newbie player until he jumps, then saying "oh, he jumped, he must be evil!" when, realistically, I would expect a first-time player to be a little defensive, and honestly, Wythy D. has been more composed than I would have expected in regards to Mac's poking.

Oh come on. I made one long-shot comment about him - you can hardly call that poking - and he jumps right at me. I am taking into account that he's a new player and his defensiveness doesn't have to mean anything, but it still deserved to be pointed out.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Mac, as noted, suddenly seems almost to agree with skip's plan for no real reason. Why?

All I said yesterDay about lovers and lions, while I stand by it, I mostly used it to see whether anyone would react in a remotely suspicious manner. I didn't feel strongly about it, and Skip made a valid objection. Why would I want to pick a fight with him?

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I had two votes at the time, and you say yourself that there were enough votes left that I could've been lynched. I gave Inzil the second vote as well, so it was clearly not a throw-away. I could've voted for Skip, but I didn't suspect him particularly, and the bandwaggon looked sinister. Among the people with one vote at the time, Inzil looked best to me.

You had two votes that had just come in, one right after the other, and more suspicion from other sources. Zil had had one vote very early on in the day, and there was no momentum towards his lynch. Voting for Zil was enough of a throw-away not to risk him actually dying, but looked dangerous enough for him to be able to point to that as a reason why he couldn't be your packmate.

EDIT: xed with Nerwen

[Coppermirror]

Interactions with Maclion on Day 1

#27 - banters with Lommy and Boro. Likes Wilwa and G55, and is slightly suspicious of Inzil for lack of substance, but tempers that with saying Enca at least found it useful. This could be either a subtle lionish way of throwing suspicion on an innocent Inzil or a mild bit of lion-on-lion.
#38 - fake Targaryen reveal post. "while I do agree that Nerwen's post was a bit suspicious, Lommy seemed a bit over-eager to jump on it. So.. hmmmm..." Another hedged suspicion.
#41 - Eomer agrees with Mac that the Targaryen would be crazy to reveal that early. Not very relevant-looking.
#51 - Inzil to Mac: "Come now, sir. It's difficult enough to suppress my natural desire to vote for you. Then again, it might be more worrisome if you didn't fire a shot or two my way Day 1." Bantery on Inzil's side, and/or an overreaction to what isn't intense scrutiny. But I take it there's some Mac vs Inzil history there. It's hard to judge this. And he just rolls his eyes at Mac's Targaryen-declaration.
#52 - Boro glares at Mac, bantery. Doesn't look relevant.
#70 - Mac's "The numbers may be on your side" lionish slip response to Skip. Thinks Kitanna's statement about the lovers is suspicious. Points out Lommy's bolded italicised statement and finds it suspicious, but wonders "The thing is, would a wolf state it in all-bold?". Well, he knows the answer to that one, whatever it is. The reasoning could be either that she is and he wants to take the heat off her, or that he knows she isn't.
#77 - a joking vote for Mac from Rikae, where she suggests he's a bear and winks. Jokes may just be jokes, but this still makes me wonder if she's got some special knowledge about lions or bears in this game. A later post (#86) suggests that a jokey Rikae usually means an innocent Rikae, but Maclion was the one who said it.
#80 - Mac responds to Rikae. Sighs and uses many a smiley re the joke vote. I don't think there's anything to learn from this post though.
#82 - Lottie's suspicion list. Of Mac, says "Strikes me as being fairly genuine in his tone. Seems to me to be more innocent than not so far".
#86 - Nog is the first person to point out that Mac's Targaryen fake reveal looks suspicious, although he can't see why anyone would want to do it. That would be a risky time for a Nog lion to point out a thing like that.
#96 - Mac's Day 1 suspicions list. The innocents in his list are all noted as people he feels good about or is not particularly concerned about or can't make anything of. On his fishy list are Inzil, Kitanna, and Boro.
#100 - changes his mind about Inzil, now says he looks innocent. Said jokingly.
#101 - Eomer's joking response to Mac's bear gag in the previous post. Can't really guess anything from this.
#105 - Lommy is baffled by Mac's apparently uncharacteristic chaotic behaviour.
#114 - Mac's joking response to Eomer. And says he's feeling better about Eomer and G55. Both of them had been on his no clue list earlier.
#123 - Rikae questions G55 the innocent's vote for Maclion. But her reasoning is sound, so it doesn't look either suspicious or non-suspicious.
#124 - Greenie points out some odd conflicting behaviour from Mac, and also points out the "your side" slip. This is makes Greenie look pretty good. I can't imagine a lion would want to point that out. He already had one vote and there were many votes left to be cast, albeit that Skip the innocent had already surged ahead with 4 votes by then. At #137 she pushes Mac to explain himself in response to his "Yikes, that was poorly worded by me" re #124. And she ends up voting Mac at #159. If she's a lion she was playing an incredibly bold game of lion-on-lion.
#130 - Nog finds the "your side" quote about Mac that Greenie pointed out to be interesting.
#131 - Mac notes that out of his top suspects the only one with a vote is Inzil, but that he doesn't feel "remotely confident enough about him either to try and get a bandwaggon for him on the rails". Says Kitanna or Boro would be a throwaway too, hedged with a "not that I feel strongly about them either".
#133 - Eonwe disagrees with Mac about how easy a surviving hunter's identity will be to establish. Doesn't seem relevant. Votes for Skip, but includes Mac on his list of four people who've said things he didn't like.
#135 - Wyth/Lote votes Mac. Chronologically it's the second vote for him. His post looks decent there. Doesn't mean he's not a lion for certain, but he's not looking bad.
#138 - Mac votes Inzil. It's the second vote for Inzil, made at a time where the largest votes were 5 for Skip and 2 for Mac. I don't think this clears Inzil. Mac himself at #131 said he didn't feel he could get an Inzil bandwagon rolling (implication that he'd like to), and he had said he disliked the Skipwagon, so at this point Inzil was his only vote choice.
#139 - Nog thinks that one but not both of G55 and Mac could be lions, and at that time would prefer to vote G55 of the two. It's hard to gauge Nog here.
#150 - Nog thinks that Wilwa the Three-Eyed Raven's defence of Mac looks far fetched.
#152 - Greenie would prefer to vote Lommy or G55 over Mac because she wants to hear his response first. At #154 she would prefer Wilwa over Skip but Mac over Wilwa. Still looking pretty innocent there. Votes Mac at #159.
#157 - Nog wants to vote G55 for preference, but then Mac or Wilwa. At #161 he votes Mac. This doesn't make him look as good as it does Greenie, but it doesn't make him look bad.
#162 - Eomer is suspicious of the Mac voters (and names G55 and Wyth), and (jokingly?) suggests that maybe no lions were voting on that Day. With one minute to go, he votes Inzil at #166. At this point, Skip was on 5 votes, Mac on 4, and Inzil on 2.
Eomer's vote taking Inzil to 3. The only people yet to vote at that point were me and Nerwen, and people could have guessed neither were going to show up at that point, so Eomer's vote wasn't going to have much effect.

Interactions with Maclion on Day 2

#177 - Rikae thinks that if there's a bear hint in Wilwa's post, it's for Mac. But thinks that if he was a bear he wouldn't have been so against people looking for them, and that his "What's wrong with bears?" comment would be bold. She could be misdirecting here, but otherwise her comments about Mac look OK.
#179 - Mac looks at possible Wilwa dreams. Says that if she did dream of someone guilty, she hid it completely. Suggests that if she dreamed of an innocent it's one of: Boro, Rikae, Kitanna, Nerwen. Could be just a filler post, but he could have feared she'd be taken to have dreamed of him and tried misdirecting people. Or he could have been trying to make people think that a lion Boro, Rikae or Kitanna was dreamed innocent. Nerwen was not killed by lions.
#181 - Kitanna says of Mac, "I’m pretty sure his fake reveal means he’s guilty and trying to distract us or he’s a crazy ordo".
#183 - Rikae doesn't like Mac's dislike of talking about the lovers on Day 1, and implies that maybe he's the bear.
#184 - Inzil says he would have voted for Mac had he caught the "your side" slip.
#185 - Encaitaire agrees with Mac's point that Wilwa most likely dreamed of an innocent.
#186 - Kitanna: "I can't shake an uneasy feeling I have about Mac." and explains that his accusations of her steering the conversation towards the hunter/lovers is "not a smoking gun or anything saying "Mac, this guy, bad!" but at the same time their interaction throughout has me wondering if she was chosen because of it. "
#187 - Rikae agrees with Inzil that if the lions thought G55 was the hunter, Mac looks better for it. But that if they thought she was the seer he wouldn't.
#188 - Inzil thinks that "in Mac's shoes I'd have thought it too risky" - too risky to kill G55 on Seer suspicion? Or, too risky for a lion/bear Mac to kill a hunter-G55?
#189 - Rikae clarifies and says she thinks it would be a good bet for someone other than Mac to kill a presumed hunter G55. OK, this makes sense. But...
#190 - Realises Inzil may have meant a Seer scenario, and clarifies that she doesn't think G55's comments about Mac looked Seerish and that it wouldn't be risky to kill her. Then says she's wary of Mac maybe being a lover, but wants to move on to lion catching.
#195 - Kitanna wonders why Mac was feeling better about Eomer in post #194.
#196: Eomer suggests that the Inn takes a chance on those who looked most suspicious on G55's list, Volo and Mac. Thinks she sounded most suspicious of Volo.
#197 - Mac's vote analysis of Day 1.
#200 - Rikae doesn't like Eomer's #196 plan, and thinks that G55's post looked just like run of the mill stuff.
#205 - Nog goes through possible suspicions on G55's list. Seems logical. If Nog's evil I can't see any hints to it there.
#206 - Mac analyses G55. Considers that might have been thought to have dreamed of Wyth or Volo but it's a stretch and "If the lions thought she was gifted, it must've simply been due to her being overly passionate". Also considers that G55's death might have been an attempt to frame him, but that Greenie or Nog would have been better choices for framing him. Thinks maybe she was a false-trail kill.

#209 - Wyth responds to Mac's suggestion that Wyth could be a lion, and suggests that Mac is deflecting suspicion onto someone who voted for him (Wyth).
#211 - Mac thinks Wyth is being very defensive, and says that now he does suspect him. This is making Wyth look on the innocent side more than not, though it's not conclusive.
#213 - Wyth explains this is the first time he's been accused. But is firm about Mac looking wolfy.
#226 - Kitanna thinks Mac looks somewhat innocent where G55 is concerned, and pretty good if the lions thought she was the hunter. But she's uneasy about his Wilwa interactions on lion/bear grounds. Hard to read her here. Says "And the defensiveness continues." about Wyth's post.
#238 - Lottie thinks that if Maclion is a Maclion, Inzil is likely to be one of his packmates, but perhaps not so much vice versa. This post looks sensible. However, she seems to have missed Mac at #131 saying "While I'm not feeling particularly well about Skip myself, I do not like that bandwaggon at all" which may have meant that Mac couldn't vote Skip. It was after Mac said this that Mac got his second vote (from Wyth)...and Skip got his 5th vote (from Eönwë). Lottie's post here might be innocent, but it might have been a lionish way of throwing suspicion on Inzil should Mac be killed.
#255 - Kitanna speculates about Mac voters.

Oookay, I'm going to have to go faster here.

#245 - Mac unhappy with Lottie not being happy about his reaction to Wyth. Also tries to explain his Inzil vote, and gets into a discussion with Lottie about that. Her reasoning looks okay there.
#262 - Eomer says "Mac seems innocent-ish to me (still)". Votes Inzil, leaves. I would say that if Eomer is a lion, Inzil is not. Still not feeling good about Eomer.
#265 - Lottie is saying now, contrary to what she said earlier, that if Inzil is a wolf, Mac should be looked at. If Inzil were to get lynched and turned out to be a wolf, I think Lottie would be looking non-liony. At first glance her comment looks good, but on a closer look, that could have been a backhanded way of her trying to say that Mac should not be looked at if Inzil turns out to not be a wolf.
#266 - Rikae's list post. Of Mac says "A bear! A bear! Seriously, though, I'm unsure about him."...which doesn't say a lot for either her guilt or innocence.
#269 - Lommy's list post. Says she can't read this new Mac.
#274 - Mac's list post. He's suspicious of Inzil and Wyth, and now also of Eomer. "Just going along with other people's suspicions here, I know, but he has been playing it safe." he says. Now...I do suspect Eomer, but right now I don't see a reason for Mac to suddenly suspect him there if Eomer is a lion. This makes me feel a little better about Eomer.

Both Rikae and Kitanna vote for Enca. #292 - Wyth now feeling okay about Mac? And...agh, okay, I'm too tired. I'm just going to have to stop the proper analysis here and just go on to the votes.

Nerwen's vote #1 for Mac looks great, but she's dead. Zil's second vote for Mac doesn't necessarily mean much on its own, since if guilty he may be too far locked into an argument with Mac. However it is interesting that Mac only gave his vote when Inzil already had 4 votes. Greenie and Nog are instrumental in bringing Mac up to 5 votes, equal with Inzil. Eönwë breaks the tie in favour of Mac being lynched. Those three are looking good, but I still wouldn't be incredibly surprised if one of them was a bold, clever lion.

Current suspicions list:

????: Enca, Kitanna, Sally, Gil
Medium fishy: Eomer, Lottie
Slightly fishy: Rikae, Inzil, Boro, Lommy
Neutral: Wyth/Lote, Nog, Eonwe
Looking good: Greenie

I'm going to take a look at Day 3 now and then take another look at Day 2's votes.

[Galadriel55]

By the way, since the first two Lannisters hailed from House Connington and House (Stannis) Baratheon, I was jokingly sure that House Stark would have to be the last one.

[Aganzir]

The summer was coming to an end when Nogrod Swann walked into a tavern in the Reach. He was on his way home to Dorne in the south, but now he needed a drink. (Or two. Or five.) He ordered a stout and sat down, stretching his legs under the table. It had been a long day and a long journey. Suddenly he heard a familiar voice recounting a story to an enthusiastic audience. It took him a moment to place it, but then he remembered.

He had tried hard to forget the strange events of months before. Even now, he was sometimes woken in the night, believing he could hear large animals creeping around in the night. Despite his best efforts, he could not fully shake those terrible memories. And now this voice (Lottie, his mind supplied, dragging the name up) caused it all to come flooding back. Shivering, he threw down his stout, motioned for another, and listened to Lottie's tale.

“...Yes, it was awful! There he was, making passes at Lord Tyrell's son and heir throughout the entire tourney! And as if that wasn't enough, the looks he gave to the Lord's wife all through the feast!”

“Curse those Dornishmen,” a voice muttered in the crowd.

“So eventually, Lord Tyrell confronted him and asked what he thought he was doing. 'I am from Dorne. We love indiscriminately,' he had the cheek to say! The worst thing was, the Lord's son didn't seem all that displeased about the attention he was getting.”

Nog chuckled into his stout. He could well believe that these supposedly strait-laced Tyrell's would respond well to a Dornishman's charm.

"What was this fools name?" A voice from the crowd piped up.

"Oh it was a strange name, and oddly one I'd heard before, WythDryden Martell."

Nog's head snapped up at that. How could the world be so small as to bring together not two, but three members of that ghastly experience at the inn?

"What happened to him?" The voice in the crowd was still questioning Lottie. "Can't imagine Lord Tyrell taking kindly to someone corrupting his angelic boy."

All men must die.

[Kath]

“Oh, he was found dead in his bed the next day. No signs of violence... and no sign of the Lord's son either! Apparently he had been locked up in his room, just to be on the safe side, you know!”

Nog's heart went out to Wyth – after all, the Martells were his liege lords, but even if they had been Dornish street rats, it didn't do at all to murder somebody (and with poison; Nog's lip curled at the thought) just because he lived his life to the fullest. He got up, his blood surging angrily through his veins.

“Pray tell me, what did WythDryden do to deserve death?” he asked the crowd at large.

"What's it to you?" Curt voices replied.

"The Martell's are my liege lords and I will not sit here and hear them maligned without reason." Nog spoke passionately. "WythDryden was murdered in his bed for nothing. You, of all people, should know how wrong that is." He continued, glaring at Lottie, watching as her confusion lifted as she realised who he was.

"Nothing?" An angry voice shouted. "He tried to seduce the prince. Men have been killed for less."

"You have no proof, sir." Nog's anger was getting the better of him. "Defend your words!" Throwing the last of his stout aside, Nog gripped his sword and pulled it from its sheath.

A gasp went through the crowd, but Lottie stepped up to the challenge, drawing her own sword. The fight was short and bloody. Lottie struck, but Nog parried easily, his age and size working to his advantage. Sensing an opening, he fainted and thrust his sword into her side. It sunk deep, and such was the force of the blow that it went deep into the bone of Lottie's ribs and got stuck there. She fell limply on the floor, her blood pooling on the floor.

All men must die.

[Aganzir]

“This is what all you filthy Tyrell traitors get if you raise your hand against a Dornishman!” Nog yelled and turned to face the spectators unarmed.

It was the last mistake he would ever make.

Enraged by the death of one of their own in their midst, and angered by old rivalries being thrown in their faces, the Tyrell patrons advanced on Nog. Hands gripped him tight and carried him outside the inn. More bodies appeared, leading horses, bringing ropes, tying knots. Before Nog knew what had happened, he was tied between four huge beasts.

"Very well, sir. No hand will be raised against you." The voice was suspiciously polite. "But he who dares grasp the rose should ever fear the thorn."

Nog was still trying to puzzle that one out when a loud, "Hup!" was shouted. Relentlessly, the horses began to move apart. Realising what was about to happen, Nog screamed, a prolonged wail that echoed in the evening air.

All men must die.

[Aganzir]

And to the anonymous neg-repper (with not enough reputation to actually remove any points) who has been targeting the mods and players alike - if you take issue with this game, please speak up. Passive-aggressive post-it notes don't work here.

[Galadriel55]

Huddle around the fire all, for the Night is dark and full of terrors!

..oops, wrong IC.

[WythDryden]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

And to the anonymous neg-repper (with not enough reputation to actually remove any points) who has been targeting the mods and players alike - if you take issue with this game, please speak up. Passive-aggressive post-it notes don't work here.

Odd. I just gave positive reputation to both yours and kath's posts. I distinctly chose the "I approve" button and chuckled to myself. First time doing it at all in this thread though..

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

And to the anonymous neg-repper (with not enough reputation to actually remove any points)...

Wait, so do the blue squares mean it's a neg rep from such a person? I had one or two of these a while ago and was very confused about the colour, especially since they were blank and I believe we have to type something to neg rep someone.