Arnor- Designed For Failure?

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

But it has always seemed to me that the Witch-king's victory over them was easier than it should have been.

The division of the kingdom was a significant contributor, as has been stated. The Lord of the Nazgûl "came north with the purpose of destroying the Dúnedain in Arnor, seeing hope in their disunion, while Gondor was strong."
In terms of the "ease" of Angmar's conquest, however, might it also be a factor in the failure of Arnor that it is where Sauron struck hardest first? Gondor endured war and strife through the Third Age as well, of course, and events like the Wainrider wars and the Balchoth invasion were orchestrated by Sauron, but they were largely indirect. It was to the dismantling of Arnor that Sauron brought his strength to bear more directly in the shape of the Lord of the Nazgûl and more traditionally "Sauronic" forces: Orcs, Troll, wolves, evil spirits and the like. The attacks on both realms are calculated, but Angmar's war against Arnor seems more directly "managed" to me, whereas it feels like the invasions of Gondor mostly involved Sauron giving the Easterlings a push in that direction and leaving the rest up to them.

Angmar arose in 1300 but Arthedain didn't fall until 1974. 674 years doesn't seem like too easy a defeat, although of course by comparison to real history the nations of Men in Middle-earth always seem to endure for an implausibly long time. I suppose the longevity of the Dúnedain might account somewhat for that.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

In terms of the "ease" of Angmar's conquest, however, might it also be a factor in the failure of Arnor that it is where Sauron struck hardest first? Gondor endured war and strife through the Third Age as well, of course, and events like the Wainrider wars and the Balchoth invasion were orchestrated by Sauron, but they were largely indirect.

There seems to be a manpower issue as well. Arnor seems not to have had the population from which to draw soldiers that Gondor displayed. What would be the reason for that? Of course, the loss of Isildur and his knights at the Gladden Fields was a blow, but we're only talking a couple of hundred people. The infighting between the mini-kingdoms would split resources, certainly, but then again Gondor endured the Kin-strife, in which "much of the best blood in Gondor was shed".
Gondor had embraced the Northmen as allies, and indeed as marriage material. If Arnor had found some "wild" Men to bring into their fold, I wonder if that could have helped them.

I still wondered, too, why Gondor got an indestructible tower and similar wall, while Arnor lost out. An answer presents itself now, that in the South was where the obvious threat was nearer. Mordor was the main concern, so if you have only a certain amount of a strong building material, you put it in Gondor.

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Arnor seems not to have had the population from which to draw soldiers that Gondor displayed. What would be the reason for that?

Arnor had become divided by 861 & Gondor did not have it's Kin-strife until 571 years later in 1432. I do not know the specifics of the populations of each realm. Gondor has at times taken into its ranks other Men, namely their Edain relatives in the North. During the reign of the 16th King, Atanatar ll, who lived for 249 years in luxury, Gondor was beginning to go into it's long, slow decline. The signs of the decline was the level of reproduction rates of the Dúnedain which began even before Atanatar:

"the signs of decay had then already appeared; for the high men of the South married late, and their children were few. The first childless king was Falastur, and the second Narmacil l, the son of Atanatar Alcarin." [Appendix A., Gondor and the heirs of Anárion]

Narmacil lived 245 years and Falastur lived for 259 years. I suppose they couldn't find the time to make it happens in all those years. I mean even as old men I'd think they could still have kids. Atanatar was descended from the nephew of Falastur. It seems to me that these guys were pretty much out and about a lot, on adventures, fighting and exploring, like the 6th King of Númenor who had only one kid and lived for 398 years. The last king of Gondor of Anárion's line was around 122 when he perished and he had no children at all, not even a wife "he would take no wife, for his only pleasure was in fighting". He maybe had 80 years left to him at most.

In any case, in either kingdom, Arnor or of Gondor, the Dúnedain were few. "All told the Dúnedain were thus from the beginning far fewer in number than the lesser men among whom they dwelt and whom they ruled, being lords of long life and great power and wisdom." [Appendix F] So clearly they must have made use of other men. Rómendacil took Northmen into his armies, his son married a Northwoman and their son became king of Gondor and replenished it's people by bringing the Northmen into their fold.

Arnor:

- Seperated into 3 kingdoms at odds with each other, although Cardolan did support Arthedain against Angmar.

Gondor:

- Remained one kingdom and had a Kin-strife "where many of the great had been slain".

- Known to have replenished their population with Northmen, even to some degree many houses of the Dúnedain, including the King's, mixed with them.

Both kingdoms were fighting for a long time, either among themselves or with their enemies. Gondor dealt with it better and even expanded its territories. There is some information on where Gondor may have drawn in others for manpower, but where Arnor? They had the aid of Hobbits and Elves in some of their wars, but what of inclusion of a people into their realms? There were Hillmen in Rhudaur.

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I still wondered, too, why Gondor got an indestructible tower and similar wall, while Arnor lost out.

It may also be that these structures were fashioned from geologic features (as Fonstad suggests in "The Atlas of Middle Earth"), perhaps the remnants of a basaltic flow which the Numenoreans simply worked and carved, rather than "built" from scratch.

"Gondor" does, after all, mean (literally) "Stone-Land" and so would be more likely to have such features to be used and shaped than Eriador (where Arnor was established).

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

The attacks on both realms are calculated, but Angmar's war against Arnor seems more directly "managed" to me, whereas it feels like the invasions of Gondor mostly involved Sauron giving the Easterlings a push in that direction and leaving the rest up to them.

Good point. Arnor was chosen because of it's disunion. How Sauron would have went had Arnor remained intact may have been a toss of the coin. Perhaps the indirect attacks, or the use of people inside the realms to cause disruptions may have been used anyways. He did make use of Dúnedain and clearly they are susceptible to his influence. He made a mess with them on Númenor. I think he'd have tried to slowly chip away in any case and yea Arnor did not fall so fast even though it did fall. It was around for nearly 2000 years and fighting about 600 years with Angmar.

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by Belegorn

Arnor did not fall so fast even though it did fall. It was around for nearly 2000 years and fighting about 600 years with Angmar.

Good perspective. Arnor lasted longer than the mighty Roman Empire!! That's not too shabby.

[Alfirin]

I'd go with the second, since if played correctly it might, theoretically leave Sauron with a Numenor like situation; an Arnor corrupted, under his control, and still pretty unified and undiminished. With that Sauron might actually be able to play on the pride of the Kings of Arnor enough to make them attempt to invade Gondor to try and claim it's throne as well. And if that happened Sauron would benefiet no matter what. If Arnor actually accomplished such a conquest, Sauron would rule all of the West and would have pretty much won everything. If not, the war would have likely weakened Gondor significantly; and Sauron could have simply had the WK sweep down from Angmar with his armies and take over while they were too damaged to put up sufficient resistance. Gondor is stronger than Arnor, and with it's indestrucable city probably always was, but I tend to think Unified Arnor was probably not so weak that an assault by them would be a cakewalk for Gondor to repulse.

[Belegorn]

I'm checking Appendix F and it seems that some of the other men that inhabited Arnor, were the Dunlendings who used to live by the White Mountains north of Dol Amroth, and went north to the southern Misty Mountains and from there to the Barrowdowns. The Men of Bree are their descendants, "but long before these had become subjects of the North Kingdom of Arnor".