Elven Characteristics

[Galin]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

Well he puts one version in the story and published it. That's good enough for me.

You can take the constructed versions as canon if you like. For me these versions are constructed for the 'reader experience' [different from a scholarly approach to an unfinished legendarium with different parts written at different times] not to define for the reader what Tolkien ultimately intended.

This just causes more problems. If we don't have the full commentary then we can not garner the context. For instance I remember a discussion about what was meant by Erendis' 'beauty seldom seen in Numenor.' One person argued it meant she was dark haired, but by looking at text elsewhere Christopher judged it to mean she was an incredibly beautiful woman much like Morwen.

Without context we have no indication of things he said prior. I really don't see how this can be viewed as a contradiction with such little evidence.

If there is more context about Eldarin height in these same papers, description that alters or helps with an interpretation of the text presented, I would expect it to be included as well. H&S are noted Tolkien scholars and you can find their thanks to Christopher Tolkien and other folk in the Preface to their Companion to The Lord of the Rings.


In any case, using what we have, I interpret things differently than you do.



The rest is just going in circles now.

[cellurdur]

We will agree to disagree on this matter.

[Nerwen]

Well, cellurdur, until such time as you can come up with anything I would call actual support for your arguments (as opposed to just stating them over and over) we're going to have to, aren't we? We just seem to differ fundamentally on how we interpret apparently simple information (descriptions, measurements, the terms of Tolkien's will, etc.). I guess that's it.

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, cellurdur, until such time as you can come up with anything I would call actual support for your arguments (as opposed to just stating them over and over) we're going to have to, aren't we? We just seem to differ fundamentally on how we interpret apparently simple information (descriptions, measurements, the terms of Tolkien's will, etc.). I guess that's it.

Now I have seen the quote in context I would have thought that sometimes we need to need take things in the context they are said.

the Númenóreans before the Downfall were a people of great stature and strength, the Kings of Men; their full grown men were commonly seven feet tall, especially in the royal and noble houses. In the North where men of other kinds were fewer and their race remained purer this stature remained more frequent, though in both Arnor and Gondor apart from mixture of race the Númenóreans showed a dwindling of height and of longevity in Middle-earth that became more marked as the Third Age passed. Aragorn, direct descendant of Elendil and his son Isildur, both of whom had been seven feet tall, must nonetheless have been a very tall man..., probably at least 6 ft. 6; and Boromir, of high Númenórean lineage, not much shorter, (say 6 ft. 4).'

The full quote.

1. The Numenoreans before the downfall were very often 7ft tall and especially in the noble families.
2. So 7ft tall is nothing special for a Numenorean and even the average commoners were sometimes 7ft tall
3. The Lords and descendants of Elros were taller than common men.
4. Elendil was very tall even compared to the nobility.
5. Tolkien has to be taken literally when he says Elendil was 7ft.
6. Tolkien is contradicting himself about Elendil being tall for a Numenorean.

According to your argument it's no wonder Tolkien contradicts himself in a different passage, he contradicts hiimself in the passage above. It would be best if Elendil the Tall was renamed Elendil of Common Height.

[arathorn]

So you think that there are some eldar that were shorter than 6'6'' since you think that's an average??