Bilbo´s treachery - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Puddleglum · 01-09-2014, 06:50 PM

Personally, I think too much is made of the word "betray". Certainly "Thorin" felt his interests had been betrayed, but I think Bilbo was both motivated by and acting in favor of the "best" interests of both Thorin and his friends - whether they felt so at the time or not.

Firstly, the end result of Bilbo's plan was intended to be (and actually worked out to be) that Thorin would get the Arkenstone he craved. It was passed to Bard as a negotiating tool, not for Bard to keep for his own - and Bard obviously saw it that way as well.

Second, as Fordim points out, Bilbo believed it was in the interests of the Dwarves to be friends with their neighbors and that their (esp Thorin's) insistence on standing for ALL their RIGHTS regardless of the consequences was damaging to THEM in the long run (or, even, in the short run).

Think, for instance, of how Tolkien portrayed Feanor's (and his sons) "dwarvish" insistence that the Silmaril was "THEIRs" and theirs alone. They certainly had a legal case to stand on, but the "I want mine and will destroy myself to get it" attitude was portrayed as wrong and leading to destruction.
It goes with the belief (right, I think) that "Pride" is more damaging than "loss".
Reminds me of an old rhyme ---
"Here lie the bones of Ezra McCray,
who died defending his right-of-way.
He was Right, dead Right, as he sped along,
But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong.

Bilbo, while hired to do a job, was neither a subject of Thorin, nor his servant. Rather he was a friend who felt it was an act of friendship to save Thorin, even from himself. And even at the risk of being disowned or even killed.

As Gandalf put it "Well done!, Mr. Baggins!"

01-09-2014, 06:50 PM	#13
Puddleglum Wight Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 145	Personally, I think too much is made of the word "betray". Certainly "Thorin" felt his interests had been betrayed, but I think Bilbo was both motivated by and acting in favor of the "best" interests of both Thorin and his friends - whether they felt so at the time or not. Firstly, the end result of Bilbo's plan was intended to be (and actually worked out to be) that Thorin would get the Arkenstone he craved. It was passed to Bard as a negotiating tool, not for Bard to keep for his own - and Bard obviously saw it that way as well. Second, as Fordim points out, Bilbo believed it was in the interests of the Dwarves to be friends with their neighbors and that their (esp Thorin's) insistence on standing for ALL their RIGHTS regardless of the consequences was damaging to THEM in the long run (or, even, in the short run). Think, for instance, of how Tolkien portrayed Feanor's (and his sons) "dwarvish" insistence that the Silmaril was "THEIRs" and theirs alone. They certainly had a legal case to stand on, but the "I want mine and will destroy myself to get it" attitude was portrayed as wrong and leading to destruction. It goes with the belief (right, I think) that "Pride" is more damaging than "loss". Reminds me of an old rhyme --- "Here lie the bones of Ezra McCray, who died defending his right-of-way. He was Right, dead Right, as he sped along, But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong. Bilbo, while hired to do a job, was neither a subject of Thorin, nor his servant. Rather he was a friend who felt it was an act of friendship to save Thorin, even from himself. And even at the risk of being disowned or even killed. As Gandalf put it "Well done!, Mr. Baggins!"