The Hobbit Desolation of Smaug support thread.

[Bêthberry]

Sorry to be negative, apparently yet again, but Nerwen is not the mod for this forum. Estelyn Telcontar is. You can check out who the forum leaders are here: Barrow Downs forum leaders.

I'm sorry you find it offensive that I object to reviews of movies that are not yet released. I find them all part of marketing strategy. Now, reviews after the movies are released I think might be worth considering as legitimate reviews.

[Michael Murry]

My youngter brother once played for a college football coach who had to pull the starting quarterback after he had five passes intercepted and team morale had plummeted. Meeting the dejected player at the sideline the coach kindly told him: "I always like to find something positive to say about any situation, and I'm positive that I've never seen you have a worse game."

Or that old joke abot the U.S. Marines starving and down with malaria and jungle rot on Guadalcanal: "I felt truly horrible but people told me to cheer up because things could always get worse. So I cheered up, and sure enough, things got worse."

So keep that quarterback in the game and joyfully revel in every pass he throws -- to the other team. Which reminds me of all those times in high school when our enthusiastic but clueless cheerleaders would shout: "block that kick" whenever our team lined up to punt.

There is positive, and then there is Pollyanna.

[Mithalwen]

The reviews I have read have been published on the websites of national broadsheets so I wouldn't dismis them merely as hype. The Telegraph one slated the film, the positive ones concede padding and major digression but express enjoyment of it as an adventure film. The Telegraph reviewer clearly really knows and loves Tolkien and minds more that Bilbo's story has been nigh on overwhelmed, less able to just go along for the ride.

[mark12_30]

I have read the spoilers.

Nevertheless I have tickets for a 3d double feature. Six hours of PJ' s pricey alternate universe fan fiction with a redhaired Mary Sue.

I plan on having a rollicking good time.

And after that we will discuss how the movie differs from the book (which we have as a family just begun reading together) while my youngest draws anime Fili (very odd, but it's definitely movie Fili, I can tell by the braided moustache).

My oldest asked me the other day where Strider came from on the map.

Neither of them would have tackled the books, were it not for PJ' s movies.

Popcorn?

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

I have read the spoilers.

This made me laugh. I think we've all read the spoilers it's the book

[MCRmyGirl4eva]

I'm going to see DoS with my boyfriend tomorrow. I dislike Tauriel already, but I'm still stoked for the movie. I also feel guilty for neglecting this site for so long.

[Aganzir]

Give Tauriel a chance. After all, she and Legolas are the best characters in the film. (Says someone who generally loves dwarves through and through and utterly disliked Legolas in LOTR.)

[Morthoron]

Say something positive? Hmmm...let me see, something positive. Positive?

*drums fingers on desk*

I assume we must say something positive about the film, yes? Okay, let's be positive. They spent a lot of money on it. The films certainly have helped New Zealand's economy and employment.

There you go. It was a bit taxing, but I managed it.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Give Tauriel a chance. After all, she and Legolas are the best characters in the film. (Says someone who generally loves dwarves through and through and utterly disliked Legolas in LOTR.)

I didn't understand all the outrage of the idea of a new female character in the films. I just didn't know what people were arguing...

Was it, there are no female elves in Mirkwood? That's a rather silly argument.

Or Tauriel isn't in the Hobbit, therefore she isn't Tolkien and doesn't belong in a film called The Hobbit? Ok, that makes more sense...Maybe I'm the big meanie here, but if someone wants Tolkien stories, I've heard the man wrote a ton. It's like folks enjoy making themselves miserable when going to see something they know they're completely against.

Onto the Dwarves, I don't think it bodes well when reknown dwarf-lover Agan says the dwarves not done well.

In preparation for going to see Desolation of Smaug tonight I popped in An Unexpected Journey again...and well I rather enjoyed it. The FOTR prologue set up that movie much better than TH prologue set up these films. But I seriously was laughing more, when Bilbo was talking about Lobelia making off with all his spoons. And then the "flashback" 60 years earlier with Gandalf's arrival and the story goes from there. It was interesting and enjoyable up until Azog and hunting Thorin is introduced...and Radagast randomly popping up to do a terrible job of leading the wargs away. I was wondering if he was going in circles. Then it got better for a bit in Rivendell (I liked TH Elrond much better than LOTR Elrond). Goblin-town was somewhat painful, the escape and all I mean let's watch dwarves run for 10 minutes and slice up goblins, no thanks. Luckily Bilbo's and Gollum's scene was truly a gem. The Thorin-Azog battle at the end was maybe one of the worst things I've seen in a movie (I thought they couldn't get any cheesier than Sam's REAAAACH! in ROTK, but I was wrong). But it ended nicely with the long distance shot of Erebor.

If it hadn't been for the Azog storyline and that ridiculous concocted fight at the end I think I would have legit enjoyed the entire film. I seriously didn't appreciate Martin's performance enough because I had real teary eyes at different points (which is actually more than what TTT was ever able to do). When Bilbo escapes Gollum, rejoins the dwarves and explains why he came back...whether it was the actual script or just the way Martin delivered talking about having a home but the dwarves had their home taken, I was teary. That was a beautiful moment.

I'm nervous now though, because I was hoping for some gradual and deeper developments into all the dwarves characters...and it sounds like this next movie doesn't do that as the dwarves get tossed? An Unexpected Journey I left thinking they did a great job with Bofur and Balin. Even if I wished he looked more like a dwarf, I liked the use of Fili as comic relief (and I was chuckling, "Who you calling diseased!? I'm not diseased! *Thorin kicks Fili* "Oh I am full of diseases! I can't tell you how many diseases I have!", which again is something that Gimli was rarely able to do in the LOTR films).

*Ignored Lommy's post until afterwards. Nothing agianst you Lommy, but I'm staying away from all spoilers for this one. I didn't do that for An Unexpected Journey, and while it wrapped my head around the realization these films were not going to be about Tolkien's The Hobbit, I was rather bored knowing generally what I was going to see. I don't want that feeling again...whether good or completely bebothered by it, I want to walk into the theaters completely ignorant. *

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

This made me laugh. I think we've all read the spoilers it's the book

Errrr...nope.

I've read the books more times than I've had celery (not more times than I've had hot dinners, that would be silly), and the film is full of spoilers. Why? It is most definitely not a translation of text to film.

That doesn't mean it's rubbish though...as I shall explain.

[elvet]

Well, no surprise. I enjoyed the movie - what a rush! Seeing Smaug took me back to the wonder I felt when I watched Jurassic Park for the first time. The basic Hobbit story was there, but it was condensed down to a string of action packed scenes. The barrel race was especially well done, and I liked how the camera switched from close-ups to long shots to under water. It was very effective, especially in 3D IMAX. The addition of Tauriel and Legolas enriched the film. IMHO, Tolkien's greatest legacy is to have been the inspiration for readers, authors, and artists ( including film makers). I feel lucky to be able to have such a great time at the movie, and not be bothered by the differences between it and the source.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by elvet

IMHO, Tolkien's greatest legacy is to have been the inspiration for readers, authors, and artists ( including film makers). I feel lucky to be able to have such a great time at the movie, and not be bothered by the differences between it and the source.

That is actually the attitude I'd like - and which it (hopefully!) will be like after a couple of years or decades, when the movies disappear from general knowledge and will be just one of the many adaptations of Tolkien that could be remembered if one tries. The main issue I have with the movies now is that they seem to eclipse the books themselves and, to most of the people, seem to be THE representation of Tolkien (or not even Tolkien, but LotR/Hobbit). But I really like the attitude, if one sees the movies in this perspective: it's a work of art just the same as a painting of Isengard or a music piece representing the Fellowship, and one can judge how good piece of art it is, and that's it, instead of (consciously or subconsciously) putting equation between the movie and the book (which even I did, by default). This other way of thinking sort of puts the distance between oneself and the immediate experience, and it can be evaluated more objectively - or, actually, subjectively.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Errrr...nope.

I've read the books more times than I've had celery (not more times than I've had hot dinners, that would be silly), and the film is full of spoilers. Why? It is most definitely not a translation of text to film.

That doesn't mean it's rubbish though...as I shall explain.

True I just had a chuckle over it is all.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

True I just had a chuckle over it is all.

Fair dos

Originally Posted by Legate

That is actually the attitude I'd like - and which it (hopefully!) will be like after a couple of years or decades, when the movies disappear from general knowledge and will be just one of the many adaptations of Tolkien that could be remembered if one tries. The main issue I have with the movies now is that they seem to eclipse the books themselves and, to most of the people, seem to be THE representation of Tolkien (or not even Tolkien, but LotR/Hobbit). But I really like the attitude, if one sees the movies in this perspective: it's a work of art just the same as a painting of Isengard or a music piece representing the Fellowship, and one can judge how good piece of art it is, and that's it, instead of (consciously or subconsciously) putting equation between the movie and the book (which even I did, by default). This other way of thinking sort of puts the distance between oneself and the immediate experience, and it can be evaluated more objectively - or, actually, subjectively.

I don't think the films will ever eclipse the books, not for one moment. Now I don't mean to offend anyone, but to me they are rather like the Bible, in that they are such immense, imposing and influential texts that nothing can nor ever will take away from them bar censorship! And think how many times both the Bible and Shakespeare have been adapted, revised and played around with in the visual form. Yet the text remains. Horrible and maybe snobby to say it, but Literature will always triumph over Film when it's literature that's already got a firm foothold in the collective consciousness. I think only the relatively obscure or recently published text is at risk of being obscured by visual adaptation. We should thank our lucky stars that there was such a huge gap betwen publication and the work of Weta

After seeing this film it underlined to me that we should probably not be viewing them as adaptations, but as discrete films. As such, it worked very well indeed. I'm waiting to see what my manager thinks - she is a Film grad, I am a Lit grad - as she maintains that it's not right to critique any film in the light of the source material.

Also, do you really think anyone else will ever attempt to film them? I honestly don't.

[Nerwen]

Oh dear. Seems I’ve been accidentally impersonating Esty! How did that happen?

Look, I am myself quite pessimistic about this film, and I agree that it’s best not to get too excited about early reviews, good or bad. I said what I did because to me a lot of the comments here really do come across like “everyone jumps on elvet”.

Besides, I don’t think it’s such a bad idea to have a praise-only thread– might help dissipate the heat this time around.

[Boromir88]

I've got tickets to the midnight showing tomorrow with a friend...I'll just wait and see. (someone glue my eyes shut so I don't go peeking into Agan's Desolation thread. Or maybe if I know in advance what to expect it will reduce the shock and get my head wrapped around more realistic expectations.

[elvet]

I got my copy of the Limited Edition soundtrack and gave it a quick listen.
Usually I buy the soundtrack after I've seen the movie a few times, so it was different hearing the score and not having the visuals to go with it. There is a neat ios feature that gives additional content when you scan the insert, but I couldn't get it to work last night.
Songs that stood out for me:
The Woodland Realm
Feast of Starlight
The Forest River
Durin's Folk
The Courage of Hobbits
Kingsfoil
Smaug
I See Fire (this one is by Ed Sheeran)
Beyond the Forest.