The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-28-2013, 09:52 AM   #1
Tuor in Gondolin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,651
Tuor in Gondolin has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via Yahoo to Tuor in Gondolin
PJ's mace swatting a dozen (or hundreds) at one blow by Sauron was, of course, ridiculous. Sort of the way PJ exaggerates just about everything, for example making wargs superwargs in TTT movie.

The impression you get from LoTR is of essential single combat style
(like in manyHollywood Greek/Roman battle scenes).

Since Sauron was a disciple of Morgoth I'd look to Morgoth's battlle
with Fingolfin after the Dagor Bragollach.

Fingolfin challenged Morgoth to single combat.
Quote:
...it is said that he took not the challenge willingly; for though his might was greatest of all things in this world, alone of the Valar he knew fear. But he could not now deny the challenge before his captains; for the rocks rang with the shrill music of Fingolfin's horn, and his voice came keen and clear down into the depths of Angband; and Fingolfin called Morgoth craven, and lord of slaves. Therefore Morgoth came...And he issued forth in black armour;and he stood before the King like a tower, iron-crowned, and his vast shield, sable unblazoned, cast a shadow over him
[Fingolfin]...Then Morgoth hurled aloft Grond, the Hammer of the Underground, and swung it down like a bolt of thunder.
So Morgoth was phyiscally imposing, but it was possible for a single elf (granted the greatest remaining in Beleriand) to fight him. Sauron was obviously much less physically daunting, although (being more then an eyeball) more imposing then even a single elf or Numenorean of the Third Age, so it may well have been a two or three on one battle, or as Gilgalad wounded Sauron while being killed another of the Last Alliance skewed Sauron. Then took or cut the Ring off his hand.
__________________
The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin.
Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.'
Tuor in Gondolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2013, 08:55 PM   #2
Inziladun
Gruesome Spectre
 
Inziladun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin View Post
So Morgoth was phyiscally imposing, but it was possible for a single elf (granted the greatest remaining in Beleriand) to fight him. Sauron was obviously much less physically daunting, although (being more then an eyeball) more imposing then even a single elf or Numenorean of the Third Age, so it may well have been a two or three on one battle, or as Gilgalad wounded Sauron while being killed another of the Last Alliance skewed Sauron. Then took or cut the Ring off his hand.
I doubt any Elf or Man could have taken down Sauron alone. In Letters #246, Tolkien gives this about Sauron's Third Age embodiment:

Quote:
...in a tale which allows the incarnation of great spirits in a physical and destructible form their power must be far greater when actually physically present. Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic.
That would really have been a weaker incarnation than that faced by Elendil and Gil-galad, since Sauron had been obliged to rebuild himself after the loss of the Ring.
So, I agree that it took three of his greatest foes working together to defeat Sauron, even when he apparently had no weapons but his innate spiritual and physical power.
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God.
Inziladun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2013, 10:34 PM   #3
Zigûr
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Zigûr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
Zigûr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Zigûr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inziladun View Post
So, I agree that it took three of his greatest foes working together to defeat Sauron, even when he apparently had no weapons but his innate spiritual and physical power.
I think this is important. Elendil and Gil-galad were evidently very mighty individuals of their respective races both spiritually and physically. Despite being more powerful, I'm not sure Sauron would try to best them in a contest of weapons but rather a display of sheer force. I picture Sauron emerging in a furious rage literally grappling with his foes - as we've established, Gil-galad was burnt to death by the heat of Sauron's hand. Narsil was not broken by Sauron but rather snapped under Elendil as he fell. Isildur claims to have "dealt the Enemy his death-blow" however, so seemingly it was Isildur who brought the combat to its conclusion. Is there a difference between this death-blow and Isildur using the hilt-shard of Narsil to cut the Ring from Sauron's finger?
__________________
"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir."
"On foot?" cried Éomer.
Zigûr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:44 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.