Is The Children of Hurin better than the Lord of the Rings?

[malickfan]

In some ways I prefer COH-it feels more like a story (rather than the 'Heroic Romance' of LOTR), the characters aren't the clean cut larger than live heroes of LOTR, and it seems more 'real' in some regards. The combination of tragedy, greed, violence and terror for me make for a more interesting story (not necessarily a better one) and the short length is a bonus (I haven't had the time to read lotr in ages), but I can't really quailfy COH itself as being better-I like all the versions of Turin Turambar's story, though I'm still annoyed The Wanderings of Hurin (or something similar) wasn't included-crosscutting Turin tragedy with his fathers story would have made the story even more epic and tragic in my mind.

Beleg Strongbow is one rather awesome Elf as well.

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by malickfan

In some ways I prefer COH-it feels more like a story (rather than the 'Heroic Romance' of LOTR), the characters aren't the clean cut larger than live heroes of LOTR, and it seems more 'real' in some regards. The combination of tragedy, greed, violence and terror for me make for a more interesting story

Are you implying that heroic romances aren't 'stories' in a way that other fictions are?

I don't particularly agree with LOTR's heroes being 'clean cut larger than life'. Take, for instance, Boromir, Frodo (who submitted to the Ring's power, even if it was inevitable), Galadriel (who, despite her strength and apparent holiness was tempted by the Ring), Gollum, etc. May I ask in what regards COH seems more 'real'? A tragedy is not necessarily any more 'real' than a story with a happy or a bittersweet ending (unless you were referring to the mere fact that COH is not of the heroic romance class). Also, the qualities of COH you mentioned are all present in LOTR, and possibly not to a much lesser extent.

And yes, Beleg is awesome.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by malickfan

In some ways I prefer COH-it feels more like a story (rather than the 'Heroic Romance' of LOTR), the characters aren't the clean cut larger than live heroes of LOTR, and it seems more 'real' in some regards. The combination of tragedy, greed, violence and terror for me make for a more interesting story (not necessarily a better one) and the short length is a bonus (I haven't had the time to read lotr in ages), but I can't really quailfy COH itself as being better-I like all the versions of Turin Turambar's story, though I'm still annoyed The Wanderings of Hurin (or something similar) wasn't included-crosscutting Turin tragedy with his fathers story would have made the story even more epic and tragic in my mind.

In my mind, the shortness it not so much of an asset. The length of the book doesn't make that much of a difference. But to read COH you need to have first read The Sil, and before reading that you should probably read LOTR. I have a friend who is gradually becoming a Tolkien fan, but he's a very slow reader. I keep reminding him not to stop after LOTR, but he's taking his time with it, so who knows when he'll get to COH. I agree that the Wanderings of Hurin should have been completed - the story doesn't feel complete without Hurin's death.

What I do like is very intense emotion in both the quality and the conciceness. LOTR is good, but the emotion is scattered over the storyline. In COH, everything is one big emotion (most of it can be summorized with one word: NOOOOOOO!!! ). You have bed moments, but you also have some good moments. Personally, I feel much more joy reading one paragraph of good stuff happening in COH than several chapters of victory in LOTR (not to say that their emotion is monotonious, but the prevailing emotion there). LOTR will in my mind still be more story-based (with emotion, no doubt, but still a story), while COH, a good story, is still an emotion.

[Mithadan]

I agree with those who commented above that LoTR and CoH are very different and cannot be compared directly with one another. If I had to choose, my vote would go to LoTR.

I also agree that CoH is Christopher's interpretation of what this piece of the Silmarillion might have looked like upon completion. It is a synthesis of the various versions of this tale found in HoME. However, in my view, as the Silmarillion evolved, it seems that Tolkien's intent was to make Beren and Luthien, Hurin and Turin, and Tuor the centerpieces of the eventual completed story, almost as if they were a trilogy of sorts. This makes me appreciate CoH more, even though you can read most of it in Unfinished Tales and the Silmarillion.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

However, in my view, as the Silmarillion evolved, it seems that Tolkien's intent was to make Beren and Luthien, Hurin and Turin, and Tuor the centerpieces of the eventual completed story, almost as if they were a trilogy of sorts.

Hm, I like that idea. The Tale of the Children of Húrin, in all its tragedy, bookended by the other two that have their share of sorrow, but ultimately end in hope. It seems fitting.

[Mithadan]

In the Introduction to Unfinished Tales, CT dates the narrative Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin to around 1951, shortly before LoTR was published. There is no specific date for the crafting of Narn i Hin Hurin given in UT, but Scull and Hammond's Companion and Guide date it to around the same time. Tolkien unfortunately never really returned to a full-blown effort to write Beren in the same manner as Tuor and Hurin. However, it seems clear that he intended, at that point, to complete a lengthy version of at least these "mannish" tales.

Whether he intended a similar treatment of the entire Silmarillion is unknown. Based upon the length of the Narn and CoH and extrapolating from the length of the Tuor fragment, these stories together, even without Beren, would likely have been longer than the entire Silmarillion as published. A full treatment of the Silmarillion, in the same style of narrative, would have likely have rivalled LoTR in length.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Tolkien, I think it is fairly clear, intended the Three (or Four) Great Tales* to exist in both long, detailed forms as independent works, as well as in compressed versions within the Silmarillion proper (compare "Of the Rings and the Third Age" with TLOTR). Unfortunately, the forward progress of the Quenta Silmarillion narrative halted with Beren and Luthien, and so nothing of the 'short' versions of the later Tales was ever done in that tradition, although Turin was covered in the Grey Annals (from which most of the chapter in the published Sil derives).

It appears, as close as CT can estimate, that the Narn/CoH wasn't all written at one time, and that moreover the end of the story (Turin in Brethil) was written first.

*Beren, Turin and Tuor plus Earendil (never written at all).

[Galadriel55]

To me, it doesn't really make a difference what order and in what format JRRT wanted to write / wrote the books in. I'm not so concerned with the process of their creation as I am with the final product. So I can't really see how JRRT's plans or CJRT's editing really have an effect on your take on the books. It's the final product that matters at the end of the day, not the way it got there.