The Northern Kingdoms

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by ArquenoSingollo72

i was wondering if anyone out there had their own theories why or indeed why Tolkien was reticent on the subject of Arnor when we
have a relatively detailed history of Gondor from the same period.

I think Gondor was the part of the kingdom that came more into play in the annals of Middle-earth. It was the last buffer against Mordor and for the most part was the more powerful of the 2 kingdoms. It's kings were longer lived and had the greater glory. The kingdom also never broke apart. However, the part of the family that was supposed to hold the high kingship did appear to make Arnor their homes, and Isildur was on his way home from Gondor when he got killed. I think maybe their histories would have followed basically the same arc except for some of the more noble houses, where in Gondor they started to become subject to mating with Middle Men, in Arnor and afterwards they tended to keep it in house. Of course few houses remained relatively pure in Gondor and even from the nobles of Dol Amroth one of the women, Morwen, married a Rohirrim and we have Thingol, his sister, and their 3 children. Eventually 2 of their descendants did marry back into the high houses in Gondor, Éomer with Imrahil's daughter, and his sister Éowyn into the Steward's House with Faramir.

Vying for the throne is not anything new among the Dúnedain as Soronto wanted to get the throne from his first cousin Ancalimë way back in early Númenor. Of course the famous one of grave effect in the Southern Kingdom involved Eldacar and Castamir.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Belegorn

I think maybe their histories would have followed basically the same arc except for some of the more noble houses, where in Gondor they started to become subject to mating with Middle Men, in Arnor and afterwards they tended to keep it in house. Of course few houses remained relatively pure in Gondor and even from the nobles of Dol Amroth one of the women, Morwen, married a Rohirrim and we have Thingol, his sister, and their 3 children. Eventually 2 of their descendants did marry back into the high houses in Gondor, Éomer with Imrahil's daughter, and his sister Éowyn into the Steward's House with Faramir.

It seems to me that the very blood-purity that set Arnor apart from Gondor, and ultimately resulted in the return of a king that would rule both kingdoms, was also what hastened its initial fall.
Gondor's intermingling with the lesser Men of Middle-earth gave it the manpower to stand as a bulwark against Mordor and its allies even after such calamities as the plague and the Kin-strife, whereas the Witch-king went north and simply wore down Arnor over time through attrition.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

I suspect that the division of Arnor was inspired by the fate of many RW Germanic kingdoms, including Charlemagne's empire; it was a byproduct of the ultimately destructive old Teutonic custom of dividing an inheritance among the sons rather than adhering to primogeniture.

Of course Gondor was also weakened by civil war, but there it was a faction-fight over a single crown rather than armed squabbles between, say, Belfalas and Anorien.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

I suspect that the division of Arnor was inspired by the fate of many RW Germanic kingdoms, including Charlemagne's empire; it was a byproduct of the ultimately destructive old Teutonic custom of dividing an inheritance among the sons rather than adhering to primogeniture.

Of course Gondor was also weakened by civil war, but there it was a faction-fight over a single crown rather than armed squabbles between, say, Belfalas and Anorien.

Arnor wasn't helped by the Witch-king's appearance, either. He apparently introduced evil men into Rhudaur, and that seems to have worsened the division.
It makes one wonder that if Gondor had had an external force actively fomenting dissension, could it have avoided the fate of its northern twin?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Arnor wasn't helped by the Witch-king's appearance, either. He apparently introduced evil men into Rhudaur, and that seems to have worsened the division.
It makes one wonder that if Gondor had had an external force actively fomenting dissension, could it have avoided the fate of its northern twin?

Gondor did- it is IMO pretty clear that Harad (under Sauron/Nazgul influence, and its ruling caste of Black Numenoreans) were backing Castamir in fomenting the Kinstrife.

Arnor broke up long before the Witch-King came north- in fact it was the rise of Angmar which forced the squabbling sub-kingdoms to unite (or at least Arthedain and Cardolan, Rhudaur being a lost cause)

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Gondor did- it is IMO pretty clear that Harad (under Sauron/Nazgul influence, and its ruling caste of Black Numenoreans) were backing Castamir in fomenting the Kinstrife.

Appendix A states Castamir was "supported by the people of the coasts and of the great havens of Pelargir and Umbar".
After Castamir's defeat his sons sought refuge at Umbar, and then it seems they made their alliance with "enemies of Gondor".

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Arnor broke up long before the Witch-King came north- in fact it was the rise of Angmar which forced the squabbling sub-kingdoms to unite (or at least Arthedain and Cardolan, Rhudaur being a lost cause)

Certainly Arnor was already fractured at the WK's arrival , but it looks like he really hurt any chances of a unified Arnor when his vassals took power in Rhudaur. The Dúnedain were overwhelmed by superior numbers, it seems.

[Faramir Jones]

The Kin-strife in Gondor always struck me (and others, so I claim no credit for being the first to think this) as being possibly influenced by the English Wars of the Roses (1455-1485), fought between the Lancaster and York branches of the royal House of Plantagent for the crown of that country.

For this reason, I agree with William Cloud Hicklin, that this was 'a faction-fight over a single crown rather than armed squabbles between, say, Belfalas and Anorien'. Gondor at least survived as a single state, though reduced in power, while Arnor was fragmented and destroyed, surviving on maps only as a 'lost realm'.